Moral issue involving violence
Hey guys, I wanted to get your opinion on a certain moral issue I have regarding the use of violence.
I am really tempted to threaten my in-law with violence for saying bad untrue things about America and bashing America while I was visiting his family in Australia for Christmas. Do you think that would be justified?
I was visiting my Indonesian cousin and her family at their home in Australia for Christmas. Prior to the visit she and I were good friends. During the visit, she told me, "Your country SUCKS!" and thought it was funny. Later during a political discussion, I mentioned Al-Qaeda. She then told me, "There is no Al-Qaeda. BUSH is Al-Qaeda! I should show you a book that..." At that point I interrupted her, because I got really mad. The way she said it, it sounded like she thought of it as one big joke.
Later upon returning to her house, her husband was talking about 9/11 and told me, "It was a conspiracy against the Muslims".
Later after I returned to America I discovered that the Indonesian media is corrupt and made up a dishonest story claiming that 9/11 never really happened and that the American government made the whole thing up to discredit Muslims. (Indonesia is demographically the world's most populous Muslim country)
The way my cousin and her husband bashed my country and said bad things about America that are not true - it really infuriated me. I was the only American there, and I was surrounded by foreigners making me a target for their anti-America bashing. It was analogous to an Afro-American being surrounded by KKK clansmen and being subjected to their racism.
I am tempted to threaten violence against my cousin's husband for saying bad untrue things about my country while I was there, and for bashing my country. It would be my way of standing up for America to idiotic foreigners.
Do you think that's justified? What would you do in my situation?
I am really tempted to threaten my in-law with violence for saying bad untrue things about America and bashing America while I was visiting his family in Australia for Christmas. Do you think that would be justified?
I was visiting my Indonesian cousin and her family at their home in Australia for Christmas. Prior to the visit she and I were good friends. During the visit, she told me, "Your country SUCKS!" and thought it was funny. Later during a political discussion, I mentioned Al-Qaeda. She then told me, "There is no Al-Qaeda. BUSH is Al-Qaeda! I should show you a book that..." At that point I interrupted her, because I got really mad. The way she said it, it sounded like she thought of it as one big joke.
Later upon returning to her house, her husband was talking about 9/11 and told me, "It was a conspiracy against the Muslims".
Later after I returned to America I discovered that the Indonesian media is corrupt and made up a dishonest story claiming that 9/11 never really happened and that the American government made the whole thing up to discredit Muslims. (Indonesia is demographically the world's most populous Muslim country)
The way my cousin and her husband bashed my country and said bad things about America that are not true - it really infuriated me. I was the only American there, and I was surrounded by foreigners making me a target for their anti-America bashing. It was analogous to an Afro-American being surrounded by KKK clansmen and being subjected to their racism.
I am tempted to threaten violence against my cousin's husband for saying bad untrue things about my country while I was there, and for bashing my country. It would be my way of standing up for America to idiotic foreigners.
Do you think that's justified? What would you do in my situation?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by WAIEHUS_FINEST on -
seriously michael..do you actually think that it would solve anything?..dont get me wrong, i mean i wouldve liked to bash back but if you take a step back and realize that they are being fed propaganda and useless information from their government. The only resolution to this political debate is for them to view the United States for themselves, have them reside here for awhile and then let them make their own comparisons as to what kind of freedom theyre allowed versus what the australian government does for them. Statistics like causes for deaths, populus, and of course democratic organization. Once they realize the difference there is for an INDIVIDUAL, i think they will renig on their views. What is prtrayed to them is only what they see on television and radio. Theyd have to live it to know it..I mean the aussies never had a complaint when there was a huge influence on the Olympics being held there..They agreed that there was some threat from terrorism that they allowed added security. What it boils down to is this. They ARE muslims.they attend mass in their own little world and go on to believe that westerners are the cause for such violence and destruction..True the war in Iraq , i believe, is totally for the control of oil. A poor country who doesnt know how to regulate one of the worlds most prized resource, oil. Bush has for a longtime been an oil tycoon even before his father was president. They waited for the perfect oppurtunity to sieze control and thats the reason they are there. No wmd was found, the care for life itself is not the focus, the focus is on pampering the Iraq government with security , so that in the end Iraq would be obligated to co-exist with the United States..Partial control is better than no control, right?..Thats whats wrong with the whole picture..If oil wasnt a factor..Bush wouldve pulled out just like LBJ did in vietnam..no reason to be there, so pull out..If world terrorism was such a factor, what about the Congos? what about north korea? talk about wmd..isnt a nuclear bomb considered such?..Sorry but i dont like Bush either but thats my opinion. As far as your cousin, let em have their fun, you did good by swallowing the bullet and not degrade yourself as one of them..tell you what..send them a copy of tom moore's movie FARENHEIT 911..thatll prove to them alot..cause its un-biased..it bashes the U.S. for its part but yet explains why things are the way it is..If youve seen it, you know what i mean...violence will only reinforce the idea that americans are bullies..as for me..we deal with alot of different cultures here and even the muslims are silenced, because they dont believe that a culture like ours are actually americans..too bad hawaii is only big enough for some of us at any given time..they come, they learn, go home and spread the aloha...more come, some forget to go home, but for the most part they will never forget the aloha that was shared during their visit..okay im done good night..
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Permalink Reply by Kawaipuna on -
Once again my bruddah, I back you up.!!!
Lots of Politics involved in the war, and $$$$$Greed$$$$...
I think keeping your cool and letting it slide was the best way to go...Was very hard but Pono..
Send 'um some reading material on 9/11, and send 'um that DVD Waiehu was talking about...
That one is "Heavy"........................................................1LUV braddahz
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Permalink Reply by Carlin on -
No way is it worth it. You're a bigger man than he so just forget about it. People do/say stupid shit everyday and you just happend to be around one when going off. A bigger person would ignore them and in the future you can simply chose not to spend anymore time around them. Something is driving their "hatred" to say those things. Feel sorry for them instead of doing something that could get you in a lot of trouble and worse, in another country!
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Permalink Reply by Jason Kalani on -
Honestly, threatening somebody with violence because of their point of view is not a good idea. Though I truly understand how frustrated other people can cause us to feel at times, ultimately-- nobody can MAKE us feel (let alone, do) anything. It might be in your, and all of our best interest, if we strive to uphold the ideology that in reality, others can only influence us. We CHOOSE to act/react certain ways. Attacking somebody because of disagreement pans out looking as immature as screaming or swearing at somebody just because you might not have any more ammo to argue with.
Also, though I love our country as well, I feel that we ARE getting screwed by the people in power. We will never know all the truths because things just don't work that way. Believing everything we hear/read from right wing/left wing, chicken wing, etc. sources just sways our judgement however easily we allow it. I sometimes wonder if the partisan system is actually a ploy to keep the American People at odds with each other so much, that we have no energy left to focus on all the BS being shoveled down our throats on a daily basis. What conspiracy theories could ANY OF US really promote? Or adversely-- shun? It's hard to say. Have any of us actually been in the rooms of the decision making in such large ordeals? Most likely not. Things are so sketchy to the point that I can actually understand why other people want to talk shit about us over here-- but I'd still fight for my country in service to protect the freedom of our loved ones regardless. Everybody's got an angle. It's up to the individual to cultivate integrity, honor, and a sound mind.
"Si vis pacem para bellum"
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Permalink Reply by hoosierfightclu on -
Awesome! I couldn't agree more! You showed more character by letting them blow their wad. And I would feel sorry for their misinformation :( And yes it is the powers that be that are screwing the American name and People! I wish you could send more than just the Aloha spirit with everyone when they leave, I wish you could send with them your practice of family before EVERYTHING! I think it's what I admire the most :) I try to treat my life like that, My wife and 3 children are before everything, even my work! I could work twice as much and make twice as much $$$ but all the $$$ in the world won't replace my FAMILY, or the time not spent with them that flies by, never to be gotten back no matter how much $$$! WF shoot me your email on a private message and I'll send you something that will bloww your flops off! If you like the Micheal Moore stuff. Aloha!
Bill
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Permalink Reply by Gregg Halford on -
smash that B1TCH!!!! No really be civil show them not all Americans are brutes but, maybe you can change their minds . If that doesnt work than smash them. I'm not religous so I could give a f%ck about muslims.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Quariadi on -
Thanks, Gregg. I am really happy to see someone reasonable on this board who can see things from my point of view.
The way I see it, the real issue is not that my cousin has a different opinion than me, or a different viewpoint than me, but that she is saying bad things about my country that are not true, and dishonoring the 3000 dead countrymen of mine who cannot stand up for themselves. Those 3000 dead people were murdered for simply being American. As a loyal American, I have a duty to stand up for my dead countrymen - who cannot stand up for themselves - against an idiotic foreigner - who is running her mouth without knowing what she is talking about.
I make an analogy to the Air Force General who was fired for calling President Clinton a "pot-smoking, gay-loving, draft-dodging, skirt-chasing, womanizing Commander-in-Chief". That general was fired not because of his "opinion" or his “viewpoint“, but for making an open personal attack - just like my cousin made. Many military people share that general’s opinion, but did not get fired for it.
By the way, just to clarify, my cousin and her husband are Catholics, not Muslims.
I think of my idea not as “aggression”, or “intolerance for other people’s views”, but rather an act of assertive communication against abusive people.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Quariadi on
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Regarding that issue, my cousin once asked me a long time ago to pray to God to protect Indonesia from the Islamic radicals - she asked me to protect Indonesia's interests. Then later on, the United States gave a gazillion dollars to Indonesia in aid for the Asian Tsunami - we protected Indonesia's interests. So how does my cousin repay our generosity? Obviously by saying that we suck and saying bad things about us that are not true.
I think I should demand that she reimburse the United States for all the money we gave Indonesia in aid for the Asian Tsunami. If my country "sucks", then obviously her country should never accept any money from us. That’s fair. Indonesia is just one of many countries we bailed out in their time of crisis.
I can also tell my cousin that she should have drowned in that Asian Tsunami - for stupidly repeating the lies of the corrupt Indonesian media. I could claim that the Asian Tsunami was meant for Indonesians who are stupid enough to believe the lies of their corrupt media.
Back in 1978, her family visited my family in New York. When she was in my country, she did not bash my country. She invited me to her country and waited until I was in her country to bash my country. In other words, she waited for the power imbalance to be in her favor before making her outrageous assault.
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Permalink Reply by hoosierfightclu on
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Mike, never let yourself be abused! And never feel like you can't stand up for your beliefs! I believe the best resolution, for your own benefit would've been to passionatley debateing your view on the facts and let them cross the line of aggression, then smash'em!:) But we as Americans (imo) I believe, have left a bad taste in a lot of the worlds mouths, by going around the world telling people how they should act, feel, conduct business, gov't, etc... Trust me I prob wouldn't have been the better person in your situation. But I think that's what's caused the perception problems others have of Americans. The "We're always right complex", we exhibit to others. But in your case, your cousins were the ones demanding thier view was the only one viable. I' am a soldier and a fighter and I believe in defending yourself with violence, but agianst violence not words. I feel your passion and like I said I prob wouldn't have followed my own advice. What a hipocrit huh :)
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Permalink Reply by Jason Kalani on
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Michael. You title this discussion "Moral Issue Involving Violence", openly asking for people's opinions on your situation. Then you proceed to insult the given opinions just because they do not necessarily match your point of view. All of the sudden, I and a few others, are not "reasonable". Our opinions don't add up to squat? That's pretty lame. On top of that, how could you consider physically harming somebody " an act of assertive communication"? In actuality, I believe that's called "assault and battery". If that was a joke, then I apologize for my lacking of humor this morning. However, it should be noted that non-layman's termed phrasing doesn't always imply actual intellect.
If you want so badly to stand up for our dead countrymen like you say, and don't want "sugar-coating" in life (like your profile says), then join one of our Armed Forces. You can put some of that hooah attitude to use. The Army raised the max enlistment age just so ya know, and hell, you could even join as an Officer with your degrees. Know your lane.
"Si vis pacem para bellum"
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Permalink Reply by Gregg Halford on
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You know when I was about 18 I would have had a very different opinion about this matter. Now being 30 I feel that my opinion really doesnt matter a whole lot. All people have something they either hate or dont like.I hate the fact that America is more willing to help other countries instead of our own people, people here are poor and starving . That is why I like people like BJ who represent his country . Keep your cool and maybe these people will realize that their opinion of the U.S. is maybe a little bias. Maybe send them something for no reason just to mess with their heads. Like a postcard of how good we have it in America dispite our government. This sounds like Im some kind of tree hugging , make love not war wuss. LATER
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Permalink Reply by Michael Quariadi on
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"you proceed to insult the given opinions"
Well, I'm sorry if you feel that way, but that's not what I meant. Beleive me, I have seriously considered every view posted here.
"how could you consider physically harming somebody 'an act of assertive communication' ? "
It's is not the act of harming somebody, only the threat of doing so. And it's not really a credible threat, since my idea is only to do it over the internet from another continent. I probably could not really do it, due to logistical problems. (I can't afford a plane ticket to Australia right now)
If an 80-year old blind man in a wheelchair threatens to use violence against a professional bodybuilder, that clearly would not be a credible threat.
"If you want so badly to stand up for our dead countrymen" "then join one of our Armed Forces" "you could even join as an Officer"
Oh no, they wouldn't want me. I have too many speeding tickets, so I would get screened out for not meeting "officer character standards".
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