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Thursday, 12/22/2011, 11:15 am

UFC NEWS – Mir On Overeem: His Arms Are Too Big To Land Chokes

“I think that Alistair obviously just uses his ground game to avoid taking punishment and that way, when he gets back up to his feet, he’s very damaging. I think he does have an excellent guillotine but Lesnar doesn’t really shoot with his head on the side and kind of wade right in like, Hrmm, I wonder if he’s able to grab and pull it up. Another thing too, when Alistair’s guillotine has been so dangerous has been at 205. I really haven’t seen him and I could be wrong and people are more than welcome to correct me with how many wins he has as a heavyweight with a guillotine because I know, for me personally, the thicker your arm gets, when it comes to some chokes, like the palm from behind or the guillotine, we’re using the forearm. Guys, like a Jon Jones-type, with a real long, thin forearm are way more menacing than a guy with like a Lesnar-type arm and I think that’s kind of what Overeem’s done to himself. He’s gone from a Jon Jones-type forearm to a Lesnar so I wonder how that’s affected his guillotine. You don’t really see guys with really big arms pulling off guillotines. Another way I try to explain it to people is the triangle. The guys with long, thin legs are way more menacing than a guy with thick legs and it seems like when they put the choke on, it’s not really like bone digging into the side of the neck, it’s softer, it’s across the neck and my jaw line, it’s more surface area.”

In talking with MMA Nation, former UFC heavyweight champion, Frank Mir talks about a pivotal matchup in his division between Brock Lesnar and Alistair Overeem.

Overeem has 19 wins by submission in Mixed Martial Arts competition, but the submission expert in Mir questions his effectiveness with his new larger frame.

Not that Overeem will be looking for a submission anytime soon, but if he does, will it prove to be pointless?

Mir seems to think it may.

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38 Responses to “UFC NEWS – Mir On Overeem: His Arms Are Too Big To Land Chokes”

  1. RCS says:

    Who has more grappling knowledge Mir or Joe.

  2. Zack says:

    Lesnar had no problem choking carwin with his big arms. I think it’s the bigger guys normally don’t know what to do on the ground. There’s no big ass bjj black belt. If Lesnar or overeem got good at bjj they would be feared by everyone

    • Jmad says:

      Carwin was completely gassed though.

      • ANDYBOY says:

        and it was a head n arm triangle, much easier to pull off WITH bigger arms..

      • Ethan says:

        certain kinds of chokes chief… guillotine chokes use the forearm, arm triangle ismore your bicep pinching the far side of the neck and the other persons arm across the near side of the neck… and gabriel gonzaga is a 240+ lb bjj blackbelt, kind of a non-factor at the moment, but the biggins typically go for kimuras or other joint locks instead of chokes, since the flexibility factor is a big difference in heavyweights..

        • pat gribs says:

          100% true ethan… my reach is short, I also have large biceps and this makes certain chokes such as guillotines and d’arce chokes very difficult for me. jones has an excellent guillotine and can probably latch anadondas/d’arces easier than I could. his frame gives him that advatnage. but big biceps make some chokes downright crushing once you have them latched in…getting them latched in is hard though

          there are many giant BJJ aces. Rolles Gracie Junior, Gonzaga, Werdum, Nog, Mir.

    • Ceeps says:

      Completely different types of chokes, completely different techniques…

    • Rich says:

      You’re response is irrelevant because there is no logic behind it. The choke Lesnar did to Carwin was an arm triangle not a guillotine. If you are knowledgeable about BJJ, you would have detected that Lesnar’s technique upon executing the arm triangle was terrible. Lesnar put Carwin to sleep using his strength, not technique. If Carwin was not gassed and was knowledgeable on arm triangle defense, Lesnar wouldn’t have won. Lesnar would only have a dominant top game if he were to get good at BJJ. Judging by Lesnar’s frame, he wouldn’t do too well off his back. Lesnar is very top heavy.

      • Anthony says:

        I agree. If you listen to Joe Rogan’s commentary when Lesnar hit the arm triangle, it didn’t sound like he had it properly sunk in.. But sometimes strength can force someone to tap…

    • Jujitsu Player says:

      I think the size and strength definitely helps with a choke like the head and arm triangle he caught Carwin in,gassed or not gassed once you are in that you’re not really getting out especially when a strong heavy guy is doing it. I consider Mir to be a big ass heavyweight and he’s a BJJ black belt. But i do get your point not many of the heavyweights have top level Jujitsu seems to be a wrestlers /strikers division. (IMO) Probably Werdum and Roger Gracie are the best examples of elite BJJ heavyweights who have had success in MMA.

      • dave says:

        why ar you sayig roger gracie???? he fights at 205 and he has no had success in mma,,,king mo ko him in under min…is there anther roger gracie in hw?

        • Jujitsu Player says:

          Dude you’re so right I forgot he’s a 205lb’r my bad. I thought he was 4-0 though, guess he got ko’d in his last fight. I guess my point was that the guy has world class BJJ and has transitioned to MMA and had some success. I guess Werdum is the only true world class BJJ guy competing in the heavyweight division right now.

    • zeek says:

      “There’s no big ass bjj black belt.” -bigfoot silva-

    • Derek says:

      that was an arm triangle and thats completely different. he was using carwins own arm to choke him. totally different than a guiillotine. geez keyboard warriors. barnett is a black belt and so is silva.

  3. Austin says:

    Toquinho begs to differ?

  4. Kevin a says:

    Size matters…rather be choked by a smaller guy than a bigger guy….just my .02

  5. josh says:

    if carwin wasnt gassed he probably wouldnt have gotten taken down and he definately wouldnt have laid there for the hour it lesnar to realise he was already set up for the choke….

  6. Jujitsu Player says:

    Jeff Monson probably has/had the best north/south choke in MMA and he is built like a tank….

  7. Long-Strong says:

    Damn son… I feel like there’s some animosity brewing between Mir and Overeem. Mir vs Overeem down the road anyone?

    • Mir says:

      versus ANYONE is cool with me. Not a big Mir, fan, but like watching him fight. I think Mir is trying to set himself up with Overeem because he said recently that Brock will win the fight. Winner of Brock-Overeem gets JDS, correct?

  8. josh says:

    heres what i see happening…reem destroys brock reem then fights dos santos. brock would be on a losing streak and hasnt looked all that impressive even in his win over carwin so they will probably feed him to mir in hopes he could pull off another win and warrant not cutting him since hes a big ppv draw

    • Robby says:

      They have new Heavyweights coming in from Strikeforce. If Lesnar loses to Overeem, then he’ll face a lower tier Strikeforce Heavyweight, beat him, and then maybe Mir. I think if Lesnar beats Overeem he’ll get Dos Santos and beat him. Mir should face Cain for the number one contender after all is said and done next weekend.

  9. Fred says:

    the reason Jones chokes are So good are his opposition are picturing Matt Hamils face or veras broken eye socket when he gets on top of them . It aint no jits match . .

  10. Mike McMack says:

    It’s weird to me that Mir thinks that Overeem is even going to try to use his submission game to beat Brock. Overeem is going to try and do what Cain did and Carwin almost did, I’m hoping this turns out to be a great fight but judging from Brock’s previous 2 fights and the year layoff it’s really hard to tell what kind of Brock will show up next Friday night. Will it be an improved one or will it be the same guy that can’t take a punch without balling up. He has to show that he’s learned from his mistakes, because if he hasn’t Overeem is going to be the first person to KO Brock cold.

  11. eric says:

    Overeem submited that James Thompson guy with a standing guillotine as a heavyweight

  12. Hahahanninen says:

    mir has the most dangerous jiu jitzu in all of mma, especially in the heavy weight division…..he wont hesitate to snap arms just ask Sylvia and Nogueira, hes a dick…look at GSP, he could of snapped hardy’s arm in half but hedidnt because hes not malicious like that…..Mir’s an asshole, but everyone must respect and fear his ground game.

    • Fortyb4five says:

      Aoki has taken more limbs than Mir. Aoki hands down has the best pure jits in mma.

    • Millerhighlife says:

      ROFL. Trollolololol GSP failed so hard with his arm bar the first thing he did after the fight was ask how to do a correct arm bar. I like your sonnen technique tho: “only reason George didn’t submit him is cause he was gonna break the guys arm so he let him go”

    • dave says:

      i don think gsp could havesnaped hardys arm.his arm did pop but hary is tuff ad gsp bjj is not top top level….

    • Brandon says:

      Yeah GSP is weak and can’t finish, that’s why he couldn’t finish Hardy or any of his last 10 opponents.

      There’s nothing malicious about properly applying a technique to it’s fullest effect WHEN YOU’RE IN A FIGHT. You go until you finish; if you don’t you might be the one that ends up getting hurt.

      If you’re opponent doesn’t tap and gets his shit broken, that’s his own fault. Happens to the “I don’t tap” tough guys all the time.

  13. mmaislandjunkie says:

    mir needs to just know his role he almost got ko’d by nogueira, reem or brock would send him back to fighting old timers or bottom barrel fighters.

  14. bizzle says:

    Overeem on Mir ” His chin is to big to dodge punches”

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