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Wednesday, 06/27/2012, 09:51 am

Point Fighting: Good Game Plan Or Judging Nightmare?

We all saw what happened to former lightweight contender Gray Maynard at UFC on FX 4 this past Friday. He got frustrated, took a chance, dropped his hands, waved Clay Guida in, and ate some punches just to get something going in the 5 round main event.

Luckily, Maynard came out with the victory via split decision (48-47, 47-48, 48-47).

Guida seemed content to stick to the game plan also used by some of Greg Jackson’s fighters: stick and move. Or just move in Guida’s case. Cage side commentators Kenny Florian and Jon Anik seemed to think that Guida’s footwork had improved dramatically and was part of some master plan to frustrate Maynard. Yep, that sure worked.

However, it also frustrated the fans.

Guida is usually a fan favorite simply because he comes to fight. He has been in some of the most memorable 155-pound wars with Benson Henderson and Diego Sanchez. But Friday night, he wanted to win in a technical fashion apparently. The fans were cheering “Guida” in the beginning of the fight. But as the rounds went on with little action, the fans began to cheer “Maynard”. I bet giving "the bird" had something to do with it.

Everyone could see Maynard’s frustration, cussing at Guida to engage without running around the cage in circles. Maynard won the crowd.

“That fight f*cking sucked” said UFC President Dana White. I couldn’t agree with him more.

Another fight seemed to not sit well with White. The lightweight trilogy between Sam Stout vs Spencer Fisher ended with Stout winning via unanimous decision 30-27. But at the end of the fight, Stout’s face told a different story. Fisher clearly beat him up on the feet. Stout’s only weapon seemed to be the takedowns he scored towards the end of each round.

In the post fight interview on Fuel TV, Dana White expressed his feelings about the fight stating, “I thought Fisher won that fight. I think that’s bull sh*t. I think that if you get your head punched in for 4 minutes of a round, and take a guy down and lay on him for a minute, does not win you the fight. He didn’t do any damage on his takedowns.”

There are two ways to judge a takedown. Yes the guy scoring the takedown does have the better technique and timing to control where the fight is taking place. But on the other hand, the guy on the bottom isn’t taking any damage because he either has great defense, or the guy on top is content to just lay and pray.

So what’s the point of the takedown?

I suppose I would take someone down too if I was getting my face bashed in on the feet. However, a takedown is canceling the whole fight out IF no damage is done or no position is advanced after the takedown. Especially when there is little time left in the round.

Judges score takedowns. Everyone knows that. Judges score damage. Everyone knows that. But should judges score stagnant positions and stagnant foot work? How should judges score a technique that neutralizes all the action in a fight?

comments

32 Comments to Point Fighting: Good Game Plan Or Judging Nightmare?

  1. GET RID OF GUIDA (forever) says:

    that fight sucked big time! If I wanted to see an epileptic guy running around, I'd watch the special olympics! I dunno what I was watching then, I was so exited because I thought it was going to be a crazy fight, but it sucked. Sam Stout for sure lost that fight as well, spencer fischer beat him up on the feet

    • the Natural says:

      I thought stout got the better of Fischer this time but dont remember too well but don’t think he was robbed but guida should sign up for dancing with the Stars

    • LOL says:

      Politically incorrect…..but funny as hell…

    • ThaGreenBandit says:

      Even though I laughed (but only on the inside), that “…epileptic guy running around , I’d watch the special olympics…” was so wrong.

  2. Cagin says:

    I think if Guida fought the way everyone wanted him to Maynard would have won easily. Thats why he didnt fight his game.

  3. eli3mma says:

    i understand guidas game plan but he ran to many times and when he engaged a lot of the times it was from a distance and his punches were falling really short but i can see he is trying not to just go in wild and start swinging and see what happens like he used to he wants to try to win

    • Clay says:

      Agreed. Guida won that fight they gave it to Maynard because guida could have done better I feel like. Does anyone have the stats to that fight (the link). I feel like guida had more strikes. Everyone knew guidas game plan tho. Whoever stands in the pocket while Maynard throws his right hand (over and over and over again) is a dumb ass

      • Chris says:

        Punches wit no true intent to hurt merely to get points.
        I do enjoy a technical fite but when i guy doing constant hits(not to hurt the other guy) and move, it kinda gets dull. i would hate to b the person who bought a ticket expecting a war especially when i guy who amping up the fite by saying stuff like im going in to hurting and etc.
        Guida jst need to use da tactials but throw some power punches in der will takedowns then i can truly say he can be a champion in the future but intil then he’s no were the fighter he should b, jst my personally opinion

  4. mike says:

    The idea behind what the judges are doing is ok, UFC just has shit judges, many of which no nothing about wrestling, martial arts, or fighting in general.

    • stevo the great says:

      Um actually the Athletic commission of whatever state they are fighting in does the judging. Not the UFC….the UFC would love to have old fighters as judges. But instead you get these goons from the athletic commission that can easily be payed off, or biased in their decisions just over favoritism. Look at the Bradley/Pacquiao fight…..tell me those NSAC judges were not payed off? Bradley did not win that fight in any way shape or form…..that is why there is an investigation into the judges ruling (i.e. Payed off). So for the record…..the UFC has no control over the actual judging!

  5. Shawn says:

    I have mixed feelings towards point fighting. If your fighting your ass off, being dominant and doing damage, then winning on points isn’t bad a bad thing. As long as the fight is fun to watch, and really how isn’t dominating and beating up your opponent for 3 or 5 rounds not fun. But when your constantly running around, stick and move style, connecting but doing very little damage, and overall, the fight is boring (ie. Guida vs Maynard), then point fighting that way is terrible. A bad representation of the sport. The judges got the decision right for Maynard.

  6. its called stategy says:

    This is a sporting event, same in every sport, hack a shaq was boring as hell but guess what, if someone sucks ass at something, then you exploit it…I think guida was smart, he knew he couldn’t outstrike him, so run around like an asshole and frustrate him and hopefully he makes a mistake, and he did, I don’t even like either of them, but if you put your hands down and beg someone to punch you in the face, you deserve to be ktfo, guida just doesn’t hit hard enough to ko him, but his gameplan to frusterate maynard into a mistake worked fine, just couldn’t do anything with it. Not everyone is a wanderlei silva crazy bastard who cares what happens fighter, some people want wins and also the doubleing if their purse w a win bonus. But I don’t think its fair to bitch about how someone fights, you think he went in there and said, you know what, I’m gonna try to make this very boring, no he was doing what he thought would get him the win…nothing wrong with being smart..

    • warrior808 says:

      yup i agree but thats not to say i enjoy these kinds of fights. i just understand the fighters perspective and getting the w is what really matters in the end. bottom line, you win and stay relevant or lose and youre out of a job!

      • Super de Duper says:

        Wrong look at stefan Bonner haha

        • Blahblahblah says:

          And Bem Askren. That guy keeps winning, has a title, and somehow managed to remain irrelevant to the larger share of mixed martial arts fans. The same can be said of Tyron Woodley. That guy managed to stay undefeated in, what, like 8-9 of his most recent fights? If it weren’t for Bully Beatdown and Jason Miller, 9 out of 10 mma fans would zero clue as to who is let alone what he does.

        • Titi says:

          We won’t know yet, as MMA is relatively new, and few paiancrptits have grown that old.But, when they do, I expect so. Same thing happens in boxing, and you WILL strike and be struck in MMA in a similar, if not decidedly more harmful fashion.

  7. GRT 3000 says:

    yeah well that’s the article…showing up to run away and hopefully squeak by is not fighting. neither is throwing someone down and laying on them. They are both chicken shit answers for someone who’s scared and wants to play it safe. this is what killed boxing imo

    • GET RID OF FITCH (forever) says:

      Yeah right like Guida gained some job security with that COWARD performance. everyone knows UFC rewards fighters for going out on their sheild. look at Hardy 4 losses in row but Fertita likes the way he fights. No its boring ass fighters like Fitch that always have one foot out the door and always in danger losing their job. In fact i predict if Fitch loses his next fight he is down the road

  8. Yeah right man says:

    Good call. For many years I’ve thought that only strikes should matter, unless the takedown is a powerful slam it should be worth nothing unless you can get in a good enough position to strike. Punches and elbows from thr bottom should score points also. That strikeforce fight between Jardine and that Iranian guy was a classic example. Jardine was beaten to a bloody pulp, but he got a takedown every round, even tho these desperation shots were to save his face, and the Iranian got up untouched every time. The fight was awarded a draw and it was a disgrace. And there have been many more like it. Something needs to be done about the judges

  9. GET RID OF FITCH (forever) says:

    Greg jackson is ruining MMA is what is going on and his constant screaming in judges ears exaggerating whats going on in cage to try and sway the judges is getting friggen old fast. Something needs to be done about Greg jackosn ans his pusssy ass cheating gameplans that are stealing decisons based on flawed judging. Dana is just guy that can run jackosn right out of the UFC

  10. GET RID OF FITCH (forever) says:

    Guida is a disgrace thanks to Greg jackson

  11. GET RID OF FITCH (forever) says:

    Guida isa disgrace if you’re that scared to fight then just quit or move down like Florian did then retire

  12. Guida sucks ass now says:

    Fine, let Guida fight a boring fight and lose. Now lets see Dana banish Guida to the FB prelim where exposure for him is limited. Then let’s watch as Guida’s sponsors start bailing out on Guida or paying him less because he tried to fight safe and lost! Good plan? How can it have been a good plan if he lost? Whatever. Guida’s gonna look back and wish he didn’t listen to his coaches on this one.

    Why was Guida complaining about Gray grabbing his pony tail knot? He’s the one that put it there! I think once Guida began hearing people say that he was close or deserved a title shot, it went to his head. Guida sucks ass now.

  13. jonjes says:

    its so funny to me that the ***** coward carlos condit did the exact same thing to diaz and not only won but all the diaz haters were saying it was good performance and talking about compu strike tos and compu that….fukin diaz got robbed badly…i really think we need to get the dream and pride rules and bring over the yello card shot to put a stop to this jackson camp bullshit…..

  14. GET RID OF FITCH (forever) says:

    Excellent post jonjes. Diaz dominated Condit as he turned his back and ran away

  15. Rampage 2877 says:

    I believe in stick and move… But to throw a jab and dart across the ring is ridiculous. If he was committing too a 2-3 punch combination some the time I would of maybe even come to his defense then. Classic Diaz vs Condit.

  16. A.James says:

    Maynard is a better fighter than Guida and that’s why he resorted to this lame game plan. If he would’ve given more of an offense Guida would’ve won with his strategy and everybody would’ve been happy. Guida should’ve won but he shot himself in the foot by doing more running than fighting.

  17. Moki says:

    All u guys that call th cowards have no idea what it takes to fight on that level. All u care about is blood. U really have no idea,how getting hit by a powerful striker feels or how it feels to have your bell rung as well. Your out of shape bodys wouldnt handle 10 minutes of that level of training. You dont understand the preperation part or the martial arts and mentel part of the game. All u do is talk crap about something ur minds could never understand

    • Moki's Best Friend says:

      Moki, you’re not a virgin, are you? That’s the word going around. If you are, I can help you in that area! :)

  18. MMApersonalJesus says:

    It’s called UFC, F is for Fighting, not for dancing or wrestling.

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