MMA News

Monday, 03/05/2012, 12:53 pm

MMA POLL: Should the ref have stepped in and stopped Tate vs. Rousey?

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Last weekend Ronda Rousey finished Miesha Tate to earn the Strikeforce bantamweight title. It was, just like all of her fights, a first round submission victory via armbar. It was gruesome, the way she ripped Tate’s arm out of socket and seemingly bent in in half the wrong way. So with that in mind, we want to know…

Should the ref have stopped the fight?

Read More: Miesha Tate (News), Ronda Rousey (News), Strikeforce: Tate vs. Rousey


58 Responses to “MMA POLL: Should the ref have stepped in and stopped Tate vs. Rousey?”

  1. T.Daddy says:

    You fukk wit the bull you get the horns

  2. slacker says:

    Sure, it’s pretty gruesome. But we all know what will start happening if ref’s end the fight.

    • Ninja Oreo Dollop says:

      Yeah, a refs job is tough. Maybe it is better to let the fighters make stupid mistakes about submissions. Girls are more brutal than the men!

      Rousey’s stand up sucks maybe Tate should have forced her to stand and bang. Its like fighting an Alligator in the swamp, the ground was her element and Tate stayed there too long.

    • Nate Santos says:

      well, everyone is entitled to thier opinion, and in my opinion…’s part of the ref’s job to stop the fight if the fighter is unable to defend, in this case the fighter wasn’t able to do anything, probably couldn’t even tap, with her arms all tied up….so in my opinion….the ref waited too long to stop the fight, what is the ref there for? Just to raise the hand of the winner and to make sure noone uses illigal tactics, I can do that!? all ref’s need to protect the fighters so they can come back again to fight! Otherwise, she doesn’t come back and then like a chain reaction to all fighters then new ones come out and noone wants to see a fighter who is boring but those will be the only ones left!
      But thats just my opinion!!

    • Tom says:

      I would think that when an injury is so obvious as this one was, it should be stopped. Fights have been stopped for bad cuts, it was obvious something had happend to the arm! It could also be said that she was unable to intelligently defend herself on that second arm bar. Miesh is tuff and i can understand her not wanting to tap, but like i said I think this falls under the unable to intelligently defend yourself rule.

  3. Sweet game plan says:

    The ref doesn’t know how flexible the fighter is or isn’t.. That’s the fighters job to tap, their career could be at stake if they want to act stubborn and not tap,

    • ZONG says:

      but when u see something break, or a cut too big, the ref is supposed to step in. The ref failed to step in fast enuff and let her dislocate then bend her arm backwards risking a possible carreer ending injury. The fighters arent to blame for this but the ref fkd up. When it was apparent she wasnt gettin out and the arm was fully extended the ref shouldve been rite on top of it ready to stop the sub immedietly if needed. but the ref wasnt on top of things and thats how the ref fkd up. Thats part of the reason the ref is in the cage/ring. Whether whos talkin shit or whether somebody deserves somethin, thats irrevalent to what the refs job is. The ref failed that nite bottom line.

      • K2 says:

        So Rousey should have won the fight with the 1st armbar. It looked like it popped Tate’s elbow out. Yet you saw Tate fight for 3 more minutes. So shut up, you know nothing. By your opinion if you put your hand over someone’s throat then that should be it cause you could possible choke them. If you double wrist grab then call the fight cause a kimura is coming. Geez, Tate’s a pro, she knows when she should tap, not the ref. Anyways, the ref was communicating with the fighters the whole time on during the submission. Tate could have verbally “tapped”.

        • Patrick A. Phillips says:

          Yep you make a great point about then it should have been stopped at the 1st arm bar – definately. It was hyper extended to the max, she didn’t tap, the ref should have stopped it cuz she did not intelligently defend herself. But then lets take it 1 step further: The ref should have stopped it as soon as it started because Tate did not have the skills to defend a WORLD CLASS judokas arm bar. No take it even further – it is Scott Cokers fault for letting Tate get in the cage with the arm bar assassin, the juggernaut of Judo, the Queen of mean, the angel of armbars, the arm collector, 7 in a row, in the 1st round? were they all in the 1st round? even the 3 amateur 1’s that preceeded the 4 pro 1’s? Oh wait, it is Tates mothers fault for having her knowing she could have grown up to cage fight, and not have the $^#@ brains to tap.

      • GET RID OF FITCH says:

        Zong you haven’t a clue what you are talking about. Meisha should ahve tapped. If the ref would stepped in early then they would have had to fight again.

  4. Pretty sure that’s where the saying, “Tap or Snap” comes from!! Hope she doesn’t have any ligament damage

  5. yinyang says:

    IMO the ref is there to keep you from being beaten silly while you are unconcious. Or in this case to keep Rousy from taking Tate’s arm home as a souvenir. If you CHOOSE not to tap due to an inevitable submission then the ref is there to SAVE YOU from YOUR CHOICE. The ref is not there to make any choices for the fighter, only to save them. The surgery and rehab will teach the fighter that it is much better to tap next time, not the ref.

  6. Miesha Tate should date Akira instead says:

    Is there a record for consecutive armbar submissions in a row?

  7. The natural says:

    The dumb ugly bitch shoulda tapped

    • Tom says:

      Ugly?? For real? Meisha was the better looking of the two. Ronda has that MOLE!! but is still good looking.

      • K2 says:

        Better looking of the two? Nah, but I think Chandella looks like a horse also. But to each his own. Even fat chicks get lovin’ somehow. And the looks thing is just opinion, and as the saying goes, opinions are like assholes, everybody’s got one and yours stinks.

    • Patrick A. Phillips says:

      Now listen Randy Couture, we all know who you are, so stop with the vulgarities. Hee hee ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha hilarious, thats funny stuff, and true!

  8. joshuah says:

    Roller vs grant -bad stoppage

    Tim didn’t want to stop after Mir broke his arm -bad stoppage

    Hardy could have “been stopped” by gsp if refs just randomly decide its too much.

    Rich vs litter could have been stopped 4 a second

    Y can rich(x2), Randy, Faber, f. Shamrock ETC. have their hands/arms broken & continue to fight but a
    woman can’t?

    Rothwell, Nelson, etc. Blow out knees & keep rocking but Cote & bowles r forced 2 stop because of their injuries.

    Each fighter/injury/toughness/move technique/injury severity is different …. jacare was MORE INJURED THAN MIESHA

    Looked nasty but it ain’t brok-tid … nothing but respect 4 all 4 women on that card!

    Ronda proved me wrong!

  9. Xaninho says:

    It was Miesha’s own responsibility to tap before the snap. It’s not broken anyways..I’m curious what kind of other damage she has, the elbow was bend the wrong way. It was hard to look at lol

  10. Robin Han says:

    Meisha should have tapped. It is possible to be tough and smart at the same time.

  11. Zyglrox says:

    How about GSP vs. Hardy? Should the Ref have stopped that fight when Dan was laying there getting his arm hyperextended? I could see something like that causing more controversy about early stoppages than anything else. If you think about it, the amount of submissions that end in gruesome fashion like Tate vs. Rousey or Mir vs. Nog are exponentially fewer than your standard tap-outs. It doesn’t seem to be a glaring issue that needs to be fixed, unless the reason behind it is to make sure the viewers don’t have to see something gross.

    • Jayjay says:

      The fighter applying the submission has to follow thru and if it results in a broken bone or other damage then it is the other fighters fault for not tapping (physically or verbally). The person has to think that if they let off and let the person out, or if they escape or are saved by the bell the position may be reversed and they could find themselves in harms way. A fighter will finish to protect themselves from damage. So fucking tap out.

    • ZONG says:

      my arguemet is why wasnt the ref on top of it ready to stop the fight the second it snapped back?? why did he continue to let her bend it back?? The ref shouldve been close and ready to stop the fight IMMEDIETLY! just like when someone is rocked/staggered taking strikes the ref is ready to stop the fight so the fighter doesnt get pummeled to death. Same with a sub. the refs are usually rite on top of the action just waiting for that tap to break it up so no damage occurs, not sit back at a distance and wait for a break. What happens if she wouldve tapped before? the ref wouldnt have been there quick enuff to stop it and it prob wouldve broke/dislocate anyway. Like i said the fighters arent to blame rousey isnt at fault for doin what the ref let her do and tate was tryin to last it out and she didnt make it. BUT to say its ok or its her(tate) fault is ridiculous. On the street where their is no ref, ya ur fault. But in a professional championship sporting event, the ref has a job to do.

  12. waikrujudovic says:

    That is an area for discussion among the refs and governing body of all organizations. Like a choke fiters will be put to sleep if they dont tap and if choke is applied any further people could get serious damage or fatal. But a choke is different where ref can see in most cases when body is lifless or an arm drops .but some cases when fiter is face down they sometimes dont see from sheer angle. A fiter gettig strikes from behind or ontop sometimes go to far or in some cases to short due to again bad angle.they coul us side refs ouside cage for warning signs of danger just for refferal not to ref. We dont want to many chefs spoiling the soup . Now the armlock ** when in bad angle view where ref cant see an arm th,e fighter is responsible to tap we dont know what they feel or if its locked but when in plain view and we can see in plain view that the arm is extended beyond range of motion the ref can see fighters face and it dont take a dr to see her or his arm is dislocated. Maybe a verbal communication to fighter when in that position just like when they warn about stikes to the bak of the head. The fighter should be smart enough to realize that tapping does not make u a bad fighter it makes u a smart one. I can understand tring to free it not to lose but when its loked it tap to fight another day so u dont need rehab and risk injury. We want to see people overcome adversity and a worrior spirit. There is a limit to what is possibe of escape. Again this problem should be brout to the organizations befor our activists step in and make it political and worse. Remember its on spike to be reviews later youtube and alll other access of internet. This could be labeled as the 1980s scare of hearing the name of the american pit bull terrier. (that i breed judge and have owned for years). The lable of mma could follow the same branding as pitbulls do if people are uneducated as they are wit mma and pitbulls. My belief is if its in plain view a good ref knows when an arm is trashed. I am not pointing fingers about all refs or the ref that was in rousey tate battle but we need more experienced ex martial artist or any bakround. Every year or two recertifiy them in test form of what is actually happining in a fight to verify that they know what danger is or isnt or waht are the technics bieng applied. There is alot of ways to do this but it is becoming a common thing as of recent fite history. If we want mens and womes mma to stay in mainstream something has to be done with both fighters and refs.

  13. Ninja Oreo Dollop says:

    It is Miesha’s fault that she has a trashed arm and should have tapped but I also believe the ref should save the fighters from themselves. Stop the fight when it’s over. Her arm looked like a pretzel when it was all said and done.

  14. K2 says:

    You could just as easily blame Miesha’s corner for not throwing in the towel before Rousey took her arm home with her. It’s the fighter’s job to know when they should tap. Bet Tate taps next time. Rousey vs D’Alelio ended in a quick stoppage and was consider somewhat controversial. If refs start stopping matching cause someone was “threatened by submission” people would bitch even more. If you’re smart enough to fight then you should be smart enough to know when to tap. The fighter’s career is in their own hands. Though adrenaline and ego can be a bitch sometimes.

    • Patrick A. Phillips says:

      Tru dat on dat all dat! Thats right exactly right although many pussies and nay sayers of the sport will say “brutality, blah blah blah” Every aspect of “the system” worked as it should have, no one is to blame but Tate, and her corner. The rest was about to happen through “verbal tap” anyway.

  15. mma knowitall says:

    Fighters are responsible for their own limbs if they are still in the fight mentally. I mean if a fighter is dropped, or has suffered big GNP and if they are dazzed and don’t know what’s up then maybe step in and stop it. Gotta keep talking to the fighters to see what state of mind they are in. If they are scheming on an escape they’ll tell ya, if they don’t answer or it’s garbled nonsense they they probably can’t defend.

  16. G says:

    Every real fan understands that it is highly disrespectful to stop a fight without good reason. A fighter can heal a broken and/or dislocated arm/shoulder/elbow within six months (sometimes sooner) and they should control what happens to them in the octagon (tapping, out-maneuvering, et cetera). Tate is a true warrior and only tapped when she realized she literally couldn’t escape anymore from the hold she was in (even knowing her arm was already damaged severely). A referee stopping it would have been dishonorable and tactless. Also, early stoppages ruin the sport by not letting us see the truth of each fight.

    • ZONG says:

      But the ref wasnt ready to stop it even if she did tap and allowed her arm to be dislocated then bent backwards with a twist. The ref shouldve been ready to stop it, and if the ref wouldve been on top of the action, then it wouldnt have been so bad of an injury. To me thats the equivalent of letting some body pummel a fighter in the head repeatedly after hes out. The ref needs to be ready and jump in on the drop of a dime in this case the ref wasnt. FAIL

  17. Night-Wind says:

    G, agree 100%.

  18. “i don’t feel that bad about it” did you see the concern in this girls eyes after the fight?

  19. watchafightbeforecommenting says:

    She eventually tapped which means she eas not out or in an unstable frame of mind which would invoke referee stoppage. Referee stoppage should only be required when a fighter is being pounded without defending and when they are out cold from a submission. Mma cannot be turned into a bitch sport because a few fighters get hurt. Its their body and their choice to tap or risk an injury…

    • K2 says:

      I agree. Safeties in the NFL can’t hit a sprawled out wide receiver anymore changing the aspect of pass defense in the game. We don’t need that kind of pussiness here. And NFL players get paid shit-tons more.

  20. mmaislandjunkie says:

    tap or snap

  21. Rocky says:

    if it woulda been stopped then tate woulda been complaining she didnt get a fair fight.

  22. Dog chapman says:

    Ppl still talkin about this no one gives a shit boaaring cyborg ftw bruddah

  23. Chartmonster says:

    If the arm is fully extended and there’s no defense the ref should intervene before damage. Pride and ego gets in the way and damage occurs.. that was Meisha Tate. Protect the fighter even if they’re too stupid to protect themselves.

  24. sideasoundlab says:

    70% of morons posting here… Why am I not surprised ?

  25. Nick says:

    It’s the refs job to protect the fighter. The Ref is retarded. I’m amazed that 70% of the people are retarded.

  26. Katane says:

    I see both sides of the argument. Yeah she should’ve tapped knowing what Rousey was capable of. Before the Tate fight 4 wins, 4 armbar submissions, and yet she refused to tap out. Had she tapped she could’ve save her own arm.

    On the other hand, fighters safety do come first.and sometimes you got to save the fighters from themselves. He could’ve jumped in and stop that fight, your arm isn’t suppose to bend that way and when her arm bent that way he could’ve said that’s it, no more!

    • AMMA says:

      After all the prior arm bars and Julia Budd,s finish, you would think that anyone in their right mind would tap unless they legitimately were angling an escape. That never happened. There was NO legitimate angling going on. Therefore Meisha wasn’t really in her right mind the way I see it and the ref should have stopped it. The only possibility that I see is that Meisha was trying to make it to the end of the round. Does anyone seriously think she could have come back and been competitive if by some miracle she were to escape after that level of damage …. ??? And please don’t reference the partial dislocation earlier in the round (no comparison). If anyone can point me to a video where someone had any limb equally severely mangled as that and then came back to win the fight, I would love to see it. I doubt such a video exists. Although I will agree that Meisha probably should have just tapped, I would like to know something from those who say the full responsibility was on her and none on the ref. Lets say Rousey decided that she was done with the left arm and still no tap… then she moves to another limb and dislocates that one as well? Then perhaps another? Where does it end? What is the criteria for the ref to stop the fight? It seems to me that certainly the ref must stop the fight if death is likely or could become likely such as when you are being repeatedly pummelled in the head with no defense. However, when it comes to mangled limbs, I dont think that is likely to bring on death. Then I guess the next criteria would be “is there any reasonable likelyhood that the person can compete”. I am open to all comments and I am asking for what the rules actually say if anyone knows. If the rules are written in such a way that could conceivably allow a ref to NOT stop a fight in spite of multiple severely mangled limbs, then the sport will never grow very much and that would be ashame because it is such an amazing sport. For a world title fight… and for what Meisha endured for $19,000 was rediculous. Either their needs to be more protection for such great athletes or they should be earning lots more money for the level of risk. However, like it or not in order for the Meisha’s of the business to command the big money, AVERAGE Americans will have to shell out $. When average Americans see stuff like that, they won’t shell out the money. So can someone please say what the rules actually say regarding the ref’s level of discretion. Thanks.

  27. Patrick A. Phillips says:

    Should Tates corner have thrown in the towel? How about that angle? Who is inevitably responsible for Tates well being…….in my humble opinion, in this order #1 Tate, #2 her corner, #3 the ref, #does not apply Ronda. Tates a full grown adult of decent mental capacity, she should be able to make decisions that protect her self. Besides the suicidal tendacies she showed by fighting Rousey – the angel of armbars, the juggernaut of JUDO, the arm collector, the armbar assassin, the queen of mean, etc, etc, etc…….

  28. Patrick A. Phillips says:

    Seriously what possible result could she have seen in fighting Rousey? You would have to be pretty deep in denial to think you had some kind of skills to stop a WORLD CLASS level of Judo. And yes the girls got ripped off in the paychecks (for sure), but the legitimacy of WMMA would be compramised if the ref starts interfering with a fighters decision to fight through a situation that they themselves feel like they can escape. Certainly Miesha Tate is a beast for waiting to tap, and had she not tapped at that moment you can bet the ref would have stopped the fight if for no other reason than “the verbal tap rule” that you heard Ronda talk about with respect to the contreversal stoppage concerning the “verbal tap” situation. It goes like this, and I paraphrase, so don’t quote me on it but when a fighter makes a noise like AHHH! when in a submission then the ref takes that as a “verbal tap” You can’t scream OWW! without the ref saying you tapped under the verbal tap rule. And in my opinion that was about to happen in the same instant that Tate tapped.

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