BJJ Pan-Ams and Mundials shouldn’t have belt divisions - like how Olympic Judo is run.
As you know, the BJJ Pan-American Championships and Mundials(world championships) have belt divisions. If a blue belt competes in the Mundials, they will tell him, “Since you are a blue belt, you do not have to go up against purple, brown, or black belts”. In other words, he is protected from fighting certain opponents based on the opponents having higher rank. If the blue belt Mundial competitor wins, then he is technically a “world champion” on paper. But in my opinion, he would not really be a true “world champion” in the strictest sense of the words. To me, the idea of a world champion means that you are the best in the world, regardless of belt rank. It means that you were not protected from fighting any opponent due to that opponent having more rank. In that sense, only the black belt world championship is a true world championship in the strictest sense of the words. In that division, a competitor is not “protected” from fighting any other competitor due to the other fighter having more rank. A blue belt world champion is “protected” from competing against other fighters based on the other competitor having more rank. To have a blue belt, purple belt, or brown belt world champion is, in a way, watering down the title of “world champion”. The same applies to the Pan-American Championships.
In Olympic judo, there are no belt rank divisions. A judoka who competes in Olympic judo must be willing to compete against any other player regardless of belt rank. Therefore, he is not “protected” from competing against another fighter based on the other fighter having more rank. A judo brown belt who qualifies for the Olympics must be willing to fight against judo black belts. Therefore, the judoka who wins the Olympics is really the best judo fighter in the world, not just in his belt division. He really is like a true world champion, in the that sense.
I think that in principle, the Mundials and BJJ Pan-Ams should be run the same way. They should either have only a black belt division, or have no belt rank divisions. That way, a competitor of the world championships is not “protected” from fighting any opponent based on the opponent having higher belt rank. It really would be a matter of “fighting anyone, anytime.” There would be no blue, purple, or brown belt world champions(which are titles that do not truly embody the concept of a “world champion”).
I realize that the practical consequences of running those tournaments that way would be negative. Far fewer people would compete, and that means the revenue would decrease. But in principle I think they should be run that way.
I would still favor having belt rank divisions for all the other tournaments.
Make sense?
In Olympic judo, there are no belt rank divisions. A judoka who competes in Olympic judo must be willing to compete against any other player regardless of belt rank. Therefore, he is not “protected” from competing against another fighter based on the other fighter having more rank. A judo brown belt who qualifies for the Olympics must be willing to fight against judo black belts. Therefore, the judoka who wins the Olympics is really the best judo fighter in the world, not just in his belt division. He really is like a true world champion, in the that sense.
I think that in principle, the Mundials and BJJ Pan-Ams should be run the same way. They should either have only a black belt division, or have no belt rank divisions. That way, a competitor of the world championships is not “protected” from fighting any opponent based on the opponent having higher belt rank. It really would be a matter of “fighting anyone, anytime.” There would be no blue, purple, or brown belt world champions(which are titles that do not truly embody the concept of a “world champion”).
I realize that the practical consequences of running those tournaments that way would be negative. Far fewer people would compete, and that means the revenue would decrease. But in principle I think they should be run that way.
I would still favor having belt rank divisions for all the other tournaments.
Make sense?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Quariadi on -
Geckoboy said:
That's why I said, "I would still favor having belt divisions for all the other tournaments"(besides the Mundials and Pan-Ams). Any tournament which claims to be a world championship or Pan-American championship should not have belt divisions. In any other tournament, it's fine. There are enough tournaments to go around.The way the Pan Ams and other such tournaments are set up are so that you as a competitior can compete on a fair playing field.
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Permalink Reply by Macaco on -
I see your point, but I don't find it to be a big deal. I guess you'd have to hear the reasoning from the other side of the spectrum of why it's kept in such a grade school-like appearance. One way could be that those who have similar opinions shouldn't enter, boycott I guess, to a call for a change.
Same should then apply to other competitions that use IBJJF rules.
Definitely a drum that has been beat on for yrs.
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Permalink Reply by Karlo on -
The fact that in Olympic Judo Judokas have to "QUALIFY" means there is a certain standard to the skill one has to posses. I also agree with TonyHucle, besides competition is basically a way to keep improving, exploit your own weaknesses, how is a black belt going to be able to progress even further if his opponent is not at his level?
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Permalink Reply by Regiyah on -
I dont know...I kind of agree...Ryan Hall as a Blue Belt beat Baret Yoshida as a Black belt.
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Permalink Reply by CKaweekS on -
no need to change anything. just risk getting booted from your school and enter the black belt division if you think you can keep up with them and want to be this "true" world champion. The belt rank shows dedication, time on the mats, knowledge of the gentle art. if whoever gave you the belt thinks you can be the blackbelt world champ then i think they would give it to you and you wouldn't be a white, blue, purple or brown belt.
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Permalink Reply by Ryan on -
The way i see it is keep the belt divisions, and weight classes in those divisons. then at the end of the tourny hold another "mini" tourny of the winners, in which you throw out weight classes and belt divisions. You then have the best of the best going with the other best. Cause I know of a couple purple belts that give high level brown belts fits when rolling. And if a white belt gets lucky and should catch a black belt in somehting then it'props to the white belt and WTF to the black belt.
I think this is how they should run it.
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Permalink Reply by Coral Snake on -
I dont think that anyone thinks a guy who wins a blue belt pan-am is a world champ compared to a black belt pan-am winner. Its just different levels, all it means is that you are a blue belt pan-am champ after which you which you were probably promoted to purple.
All the pan-ams and mundial's mean is that in your weight and belt level you competed against the best there was that day and won that day.
If you want to complete as a black belt and your not then jsut do it. Chances are you will lose.
I also dont see your point about Judo either. Please correct me if I am wrong but I have seen lots of Judo tourns where theet are split in to white up to brown, brown, and black or just brown (& below) and black, or brown and black. And these include some major tourns. like the Liberty Bell, New York International and Pan-ams. Also the other issue is that a black belt (Shodan) dosent mean the same level of mastery as a BB in BJJ. Judo black belt means that you are a qualified fighter and thats it. The more degrees the higher the level of mastery. I would like to see the Judo Brown belt that is able to make the Olympics. Its not possible. To qualify for Olympic trails they would have to compete in the worlds at the black belt level.
So in other words Judo and BJJ have pretty much the same system of compitition. If you want to know whos the best in the BJJ world the I dont know what to tell you. But I can say that who ever wins in the Mudials at the Black belt level was the best there was that day.
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Permalink Reply by Nick on -
There are forbidden Techniques at Blue belt that are allowed in the black belt divisions.. I'm a White belt on the cusp of Blue and twisting Leglocks scare the shit out of me..
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Permalink Reply by Nick on
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There are forbidden Techniques at Blue belt that are allowed in the black belt divisions.. I'm a White belt on the cusp of Blue and twisting Leglocks scare the shit out of me..
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