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Tuesday, 02/07/2012, 08:00 am

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Editorial Spotlight | The Good, The Bad And The Ugly Of Fighting For Points


Finally, the levee breaks.

After years of curious roster moves and hand-picked match-ups based on style—even expanded roles for “gatekeepers” who “bang” more than they win, the issue was on full display at UFC 143.

The issue is, of course, the matter of style. Always a quiet issue among MMA’s diverse fanbase, we now have a full-on collision between concepts of aggression and tactics.

This has been brewing for a while, this residual brouhaha from the Diaz/Condit fight. The examples are as varied as they are diverse. From strikers complaining about wrestlers holding and hugging them, to the dud of a fight between Rashad Evans and Quinton Jackson at UFC 114, this issue has been gurgling beneath the surface, an undercurrent of discontent.

The first issue is one of misinterpretation.

It is tempting to mischaracterize both sides of the discussion. Hyperbole provides an entertaining caricature.

On one side is the analytical, “thinking” fan that is well-bred, well-considered, and able to separate emotion from technique. The “hardcore MMA fan” seeks out Fight Metrics right away to support their argument, points to fighter rankings, and leans towards logos in their rhetoric. Be smart. Make sense.

On the other side we have “casual fans” who of course want above all else, knockouts. Bar hounds that want heads to roll, dammit. This is a vociferous bunch, their collective acclaim strong enough to make fighters ranging from Jorge Gurgel to Demian Maia abandon their core style to appease the masses.

Of course, neither side exists in reality. We each are capable of staring down our noses at rasslin’ fans, and of swearing to our boxing friends that the “excitement” of MMA exceeds that of boxing. Self-awareness is important here, because identity is a significant part of our affinity for MMA. More than other sport, fighters are a way we define and even express ourselves. Ask Rashad Evans after he poked a finger in the chest of the likeable, motorboating Rampage.

For me, it’s simple: fighters should finish fights. Otherwise, it is torn open and subject to inspection by disconnected idiots who know nothing of the struggle, and are stuck analyzing the spectacle.

MMA is not boxing. The gloves are 5 ounce, elbows and knees are fair game, and chokes, arm bars, and a slew of other submissions are there for the taking. With so many ways to break your opponent, decisions should be the triumph of an insurmountable will or skill, not the successful execution of a “gameplan.” Here again, it is tempting to mischaracterize either side. Greg Jackson was interviewed two days after the Diaz/Condit fight, and had an interesting comparison to make his case. “And I’m so sorry there’s flack going around the internet, but if you don’t appreciate the way Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard or some of these great guys that do their sticking and moving, I don’t know what to tell you.” There are multiple troubling analogies there, but I’ll settle for a look at fighting style.

Let’s not pretend fighting style doesn’t matter. To be clear, this is an important time for MMA. The handpicked cards on UFC on Fox events demonstrate the critical nature of matchups. Fighting is equal parts athletic performance and spectacle. While the habit of characterizing all fan negativity as “the internet” is a frustrating topic for another day, his point is clear: stick and move and win the fight.

I continue to struggle with reading the minds of MMA judges. The two judges that had the fight 49-46 this weekend, it’s difficult to know where aggression and Octagon control enter their formulas. To clarify, this isn’t about being butthurt over Diaz’s loss. While I did score the fight for Diaz, to me the more troubling issue is that of “gameplans.”

By all means have one.

Have tactics.

Stick and move.

As an old coach told me, “don’t do what you do best, do what your opponent does worst.” I get that.

But there is a slippery slope just to the right here that has the potential for fighters to be “tactically engineering victories” for the foreseeable future. Point fighting.

And because the argument is so easy to mischaracterize, the common response is “I don’t see why two guys should go to the middle of the cage and bash each other’s face in. The goal is to win.”

The goal absolutely is to win. Faces need not be bashed in. Just finish the fight.

Nick Lentz has seen a career resurgence—well, he is signing a new contract anyway—based on a recent revision of his craft. I hope that rather than simply “standing and trading” because “that’s what the fans want to see,” Lentz will consider “standing and trading” as a tactic to finish the fight. If not, that’s an equally dangerous game.

Footwork, range, and jabs matter in MMA. GSP has demonstrated that even natural wrestlers can outpoint more powerful strikers behind a safe jab and safer footwork that keeps you cutting angles and out of harm’s way. But the same surge of opinion that has criticized GSP for his “safe decisions” is now becoming louder with the Diaz/Condit mess. The common counter-arguments here are outlining “how hard it is to win at this level,” and that “in the end, it’s all about the W.” That oversimplifies everything: establish tactics and gameplans in pursuit of finishing a fight.

Boxing has the jab-and-footwork down.

If you want 3 rounds of pure striking violence, It’s Showtime! has you covered.

But from where I sit, MMA has more than both. The modern MMA fighter has multiple domains to finish fights, and is in an Octagon (or ring) completely vulnerable and exposed to another fighters shins, scantily-padded fists, and a dizzying array of locks and chokes. If he is to survive, it is through his will, and his training—and a camera is there to capture this struggle for all to see. And that’s awesome. But only if the struggle is one man’s will against another’s. When it becomes one man’s gameplan, footwork, or jab against anothers, that is also fine.

As long as they are used to finish a fight.

Not reckless flailing. Not “standing and banging.” Not rolling heads so that patrons spill their beer in celebration.

But rather so there is undeniable closure on a contest of human will. No judges staining their struggle. No fan talking them out of their natural gifts. Just an honest collision of two human spirits.

Where one man stood against another, and that was it.

- This post was submitted by guest contributor Terry Heick.

comments

160 Comments to Editorial Spotlight | The Good, The Bad And The Ugly Of Fighting For Points

  1. T.DADDY says:

    the good is you win… the bad and ugly is you make all the fans think this is gonna be some epic fight and you come out and fight for points ( GSP- DOMINICK CRUZ) and the fans feel robbed (JUST LIKE DIAZ GOT ROBBED) and it makes me want Condit to change his name to the natural born runner..lol

    • phace says:

      Funny :-D
      I like this quote from the article:
      “For me, it’s simple: fighters should finish fights. Otherwise, it is torn open and subject to inspection by disconnected idiots who know nothing of the struggle, and are stuck analyzing the spectacle”

    • Well go watch fights on YouTube dude. You’ll see that wild style of guys trying to finish fights that you like. If 2 fighters go in and swing for the fences with their eyes practically closed they’ll gas and of course one will eventually get KO. I’d rather watch the sport for what it is a chess match, technique. And if it goes to a decision, oh well even better more rounds to watch.

      • phace says:

        The problem with going to decision is a flawed system with a network of non-educated(or bias) judges. This is why they say don’t leave it to the judges. I like every kind of combative fight(technical, brawl, ground oriented, etc.) and actually enjoyed watching the DIaz vs. Condit fight. Apart from me feeling that Diaz won(based on rounds 1,2, and 5) I noticed inconsistencies in the way the judges scored. I get that it was a close fight and could have gone either way. What I don’t get is how they came to their conclusions(based on their individual scorecards). The conclusion to me is that you run risks if you don’t finish the fight before the final bell.

  2. Brandon Wheaton says:

    Simple, as BJ Penn said: Decision = Draw, and fighters will actually try to finish fights.

    (Also GSP would be like 4-3-12 lmfao)

    • spiritsplice says:

      Yep and if they got rid of rounds it would help too.

      • Thurgood Jenkins says:

        Good point Spirit, but I could see gassing out becoming much prevalent, hence more fights like Maia-Weidman. That one-minute interval between rounds is crucial for a lot of fighters.

        • spiritsplice says:

          Those two gassed caise they weren’t in shape at all though. Another way to give incentive would be to base paydays on how the fight goes. A finish gets you 100% of the amount, a draw gets you 50% or something. 3 draws in a row and you drop to 25%.

          Fighters don’t get in shape cause they don’t have to. But plenty of guys do, Guida, Sanchez, Anderson, Jones, Rampage. If the game requires being in shape, they will do it. Now it really doesn’t.

  3. tim says:

    part of the gameplan must be to bullshit the ppv buyers by saying one thing and doing another

    • spiritsplice says:

      Sounds like the gameplan worked on you.

      • phace says:

        All they have to tell me is that these fighters are showing up. That’s enough for me to watch :-D. People should understand that the UFC(along with other MMA organizations) is also a business. They have to promote and hype up the fight as much as they can for those who may not watch it otherwise. What happens in the cage is up to the fighters. Fighters say a lot of things before the fight like “I’m in the best shape of my life,”I’m gonna go toe to toe with him,” “I’m gonna submit him,” “I’m gonna knock him out” etc. Then after the fight a lot of times there’s a different tune. Bottom line is that you can expect anything once you put these fighters in the cage.

        • Carlos says:

          Yes it is a business. In any business, if you do not get what you paid for, you get your money back…

        • phace says:

          Unless there’s a disclaimer saying “No Refunds”
          or “Buy at your own risk” :-D If one doesn’t like what they’re getting or not willing to take the risk just don’t buy it. Pretty simple

  4. David says:

    Did he really mention jorge gurgel? The jiu jitsu guy who cant win a fight and got subbed by like a blue belt?

  5. cody says:

    competely agree but jackson using suger and ali is a damn cop out mma guys hate comparing mma and boxing so y do it here because he knows he trains his guys to pusss out for certain fight the fact is imo there NOTHING wrong for fighting for points but when your entire stradegy from jump is to give it to the judges im sorry call me bias but ur screwing us the fans over idgaf what greg jackson or anyone else says u can point fight and try to finish in the same fight the best point this article made is how many ways there r to get a stop in mma condit didnt go for one his leg kick obvouisly had nothing on them as with his punches he talked and didnt back it up and screwed me outta 45 bucks

  6. no one is gonna wanna keep seeing fucking champions be point fighters its not fighting when youre running or hugging look at gsp hasnt had a exciteing fight in too long cos all he does is work for points, when it comes down to it who cares if ur better at winning points its not even intresting when u know what will happen form start to finish no one will watch these fights anymore if this shit becomes the everyman thing.

    • spiritsplice says:

      Unless the rules are changed this will continue to be the case and as long as people buy the ppv there will be no change in the rules.

  7. banks says:

    Very well said..

  8. david.uppercut says:

    From now on I’m not going to watch any countdown/ufc primetime shows anymore! Stupid people saying they’re going to fight and instead they run. He said it was going to be a dog fight, instead we saw a 25 minute triathlon! Hope he gets injured and Diaz has to fill in for him

    • tim says:

      Same here… Chances are his Karma will catch up with him in training when greg jackson gets and anusbar on him and he forgets to tap

      • CONDITVSGSP says:

        Did you just type that you “hope he gets injured”?

        Wow. That is insane to wish harm on a fighter over a $55 PPV fight that didn’t play out the way you wanted. You are a real stand up dude. Hard core MMA fan huh?

  9. John Adams says:

    I think what’s missed is that Diaz also had a gameplan. It was obvious his was to walk down Carlos, get him backed to the cage where he could use his boxing to tee off on him. Carlos had an answer to this which was work on Nick’s legs with kicks to slow him, precise countering and circling out back to the center of the octagon.

    Nick failed to adapt and in the end, his gameplan lost out to Condit’s.

    Both men had 25 minutes to take it out of the judges hands and failed to do so, so they have to live with the judges decision. Nick had one sub attempt in 25 minutes of fighting, so not sure how he could be any less at fault than Carlos (who threw spinning elbows, face kicks, and a flying knee) in being accused of not trying to finish.

    I think they both would loved to have finished, but sometimes it’s about working the fight into a position of your strength to get you that opportunity to make a finish.

    Think about this for a second. If Nick would have stopped walking forward and instead stood in the middle of the octagon, might we have not got that war we were so looking forward too? Carlos would have had no reason or need to keep circling out to avoid being backed straight into the cage and would have been forced to engage right there.

    There were things Nick could have done to alter this fight, but he likely wasn’t too concerned since his corner told him he was winning, and he didn’t seem to necessarily mind winning on points (he thought he had) either.

    • Me says:

      No what you missed is that Nicks game plan involved finishing the fight and Condit had no intention of ending that fight. Leg kicks? Maybe on some 40 something year old scrub Bas Ruten is fighting that might get you a KO. How about the 15 spinning elbows he threw?..yea im sure he really imagined himself knocking Nick out with one of those.

    • Demi God says:

      This needs to be published for the website to see in full, very well said.

    • Following_Trend says:

      I would like to see you be able to finish a fight when the other guy is running away. Replay and watch the fight again at times he literally had his full back and and ran full speed across the rink. Maybe Nick should have chased him down like they were playing tag ? Carlos “the running man” Condit. New name, and hes going to get full karma from gsp. WET BLANKET

    • Darren says:

      I thank you sir for the most well said comment I’ve read in a long time

    • StatsDontLie says:

      Well stated!

    • ZeroXcuses says:

      John makes a lot of sense here, If that head kick would have knocked Diaz out this would never have even been a problem. Condit was trying to finish, Diaz should have known his game plan wasn’t working an changed it. Wish Diaz would have decided to take it to the ground in the 3rd or 4th rd after he really started getting tagged a lot.

  10. Me says:

    Nick won the fight but he should have and could have finished Carlos so it’s partially his fault. Condit is usually an entertaining fighter so maybe we can give him the benefit of the doubt and call this a fluke. Greg Jacksons gameplans are smart and they are about getting his name/camp out there and getting him paid. He does not in any way shape or form take into consideration the fans nor does he care about the criticisms. Sometimes you cant finish a fight but the goal is always to try and I’m pretty sure condit knew nick wasnt gonna go out from leg kicks. Fight like a bitch once shame on you, fight like a bitch twice…

  11. Xaninho says:

    So just because people like to see guys stay in the pocket and exchange strikes, Condit should have done just that, knowingly very well Diaz is almost impossible to knock out? That would have been the most stupid thing to do.

    Fighters with chins like Nick Diaz and Roy Nelson etc. can deliver the dumbasses what they want, simply because they are born with an ability to take punishment.

    Know your strengths and weaknesses, and most importantly know your opponents strengths and weaknesses.

    Condit knew his and he knew Diaz’s. If you want to win do NOT stay in front of Diaz and do not try to trade.

    People saying on here Condit didn’t deliver powershots or didn’t try to take Diaz out are delusional. Some of Condits punches and headkicks would have put down most of the WW fighters out there.

    Obviously not Diaz, but the guy is just born with a good chin.

    • spiritsplice says:

      Not to mention that trading shots turns you into Chuck and Wandy. Your chin doesn’t last forever.

    • Me says:

      Yea I think you should watch the fight again cus I have..some of those shots might have knocked me out but none of them would have knocked anyone in that division out. it was kind of a lose lose for carlos..fight and lose or run get the belt and have angry fans.

    • elias delgado says:

      I actually don’t think his chin is all that great he’s never been hit with a clean shot by a guy who’s known for knocking people out if u seen his fight with Paul daley diaz got dropped twice but scrambled enough to get through it

    • ComeOnPeople says:

      Diaz showed his one dimension in the fight…”I walk forward and try to punch you in bunches”. He didn’t try to take Condit down but once to try to prove he is better at BJJ. Diaz lost the fight because he isn’t as well rounded as Condit which is the same reason he would most likely lose to GSP.

      Condit showed multi-dimensions (slipping punches and moving away from a great puncher, counter-punching, punching out of a clinch, spinning leg kicks, spinning back fists / elbows, low leg kicks (inner and outer), high leg kicks (which landed), flying knees, and didn’t appear in danger to me when taken down that one time by Diaz. He was masterful and looked like a very well rounded (better) MMA fighter.

      If this was a boxing match then I would say Diaz would get the victory…but it wasn’t.

  12. mma is my religion says:

    Condit vs GSP is going to be a boring fight. This is going to be a cat fight.

  13. elias delgado says:

    The fight could of went either Way that’s why you don’t let it go to judges over all i was disappointed i thought condit was gonna be more aggressive and try to finish instead of counter attacking the only thing i think this fight proved is neither one has chance against gsp if Diaz tries that cocky hands in the air taunting to gsp hes gonna eat a lightning fast jab that will knock him on his ass

  14. Thurgood Jenkins says:

    I don’t have a problem with a fight going to decision. In fact, some of the best I have ever seen have gone to decision, e.g. Hendo-Rua, Griffin-Bonnar. I don’t think that’s the problem the fans had with Condit-Diaz. I think Diaz won but can undoubtedly see how the judges gave it to Condit based on the striking. The problem the fans have is with the way Condit won. He had a game plan. Great, as he should. But this a contact sport unlike all other contact sports, so the strike/run game plan isn’t going to go over well with MMA fans. If Diaz didn’t try to push the pace, then how many strikes would Condit have landed? Think about that.

    The point is, Zuffa bought Pride, right? Pride often had the more exciting fights because of its lax rules, right? While I don’t think all rules from Pride should be adopted due to fighter safety, e.g. soccer kicks to the face, head stomps, etc., there were fan-friendly rules: Push the pace or have points deducted; push the pace or have your fight purse deducted. Implement them. That would clearly diminish the point-fighting debacle, ensure exciting fights, and quell voluminous pages of arguments in which the fans engage on the topic.

  15. Diaz 209 $$$$$ says:

    Condit has finished such a high percentage of his fights that all vary from flying knees and head kicks to different submissions. The dude has ONE fight that’s considered boring by a casual fan (redneck bar patron) and people are talking about never ordering a ppv or watching UFC anymore lol that’s funny.. Anderson silva is the best pound for pound fighter in the world, an he’s had some fights where I literally fell asleep during (Thales leites, Damian Maia, Patrick cote), these were all point scoring affairs as well but during these victories he wasn’t crucified for his tactics, cus back then it was die hard martial arts fans watching. Now it’s just drunk fist pumpera at a bar that go out of their way to purchase a tap out beanie cus nick diaz is so cool when he gives the crowd the middle finger lol #CoolStory #HeBeatHimintoRetirementTho #DiazNuttHuggersAlliance #WhoseThalesLeitesIJustStartedWatchingOnFox

    • Me says:

      There was inteligent conversation going on..and then the rookie pretending to be a veteran came in a ruined it. Those fights werent that long ago buddy your not special. Remember when Hughes won the belt while at the same time being choked unconscious by Newton but no one said anything about it? Or was that too long ago for you?

  16. Salvador says:

    Good God I don’t get why we’re still talking about this. Condit has finished all but two wins in his entire career and now he gets crap because he didn’t finish a guy who hasn’t been finished since 2002. Yes, Condit had a strategy not to get put against a fence, which meant running around Diaz to get back to the center of the cage. No, he didn’t finish Diaz, but he landed more significant strikes and threw more strikes in general. I am sure if one of those strikes that landed had rocked Diaz Condit probably would’ve gone for the finish, but Diaz has a great chin. Should people be hating on Condit for a good strategy, or should they be hating on Diaz for thinking that he would win for walking forward and throwing less strikes and taunting Condit. It just doesn’t make any fucking sense.

  17. Darren says:

    My comment was to xanxinho

  18. Murad says:

    It’s not the sport part of MMA. This is entertainment. And in that respect, MMA is very much comparable to boxing. All the trash talking, all the promises of a great fight. That’s promotions. You see it, you believe it, don’t blame others if you’re disappointed. In sports, Diaz’s antics would be considered an ‘unsportsmanlike behavior’. We see the entertainment, but to fighters it’s a sport. If a title is on the line, and I’m against a guy with some of the best boxing in MMA and who never gets tired, excuse me for not be willing to stand in front of him and trade punches. I’ll do my thing and see how it stacks against his. As for Diaz, if he wanted the fight so bad, he shouldn’t have been clowning Condit, slapping him or talking. The octagon is not that big. If you really believe he’s running from you, run them down. Watch Fedor vs Cro Cop. Especially the first round where Cro Cop backs up most of the time. You didn’t see Fedor talking, playing around or slapping Mirko. He went after him, and if Diaz was so confident, he should have done just that.

  19. gil says:

    exactly you have condit who on primetime/countdown who said plenty times, ” im more technical and a better striker, he wont be able to handle my power” ” its goin to be a war, i go out there to finish”! i believed that bc i’ve seen condit fight and i think diaz believed that which is why we didnt see him shoving or flipping condit off during the conferences and weigh ins he even shook his hand at the pre-fight……….then comes fight night and; this is no ali stick and move, this is leg kick run run run leg kick run run run avoid any actual war and protect the points you score! i guarantee you diaz doesnt respect condit anymore next time they fight and they will diaz is going to smash this guy

    • Xaninho says:

      Diaz did just the same in the build up to his fight with BJ. Did he keep his word? NO he decided to grind BJ against the fence instead of just scrappin’ like he said he would.

      He got a taste of his own medicine and apparently it tasted like shit.

      • learntoread says:

        Wow. Really pal?

        When did Diaz pack-peddle during any point of the BJ fight?

        What Diaz did do was go in there and beat his opponent up at UFC 137, and did so decisively. There was absolutely NO controversy in that fight or how the judges scored it.

        The only controversy (unfortunate part) was Penn’s decision to retire post fight.

        Please don’t try and compare that fight to what we witnessed Saturday night in the Main Event @ UFC 143.

        • Xaninho says:

          It’s not important if Diaz back peddled or not. The issue I addressed was Diaz not doing what he said during the build up either.

          That’s all, it doesn’t matter whether he back peddled or used his size advantage to grind on BJ and wear him out instead of scrappin’ like he SAID he would.

          So yes I not only try, but succeed in comparing the two situations.

        • learntoread says:

          Actually, no you don’t.

          First of all I don’t remember Diaz stating once that he was going to either sub or KO Penn during the build up, he simply stated he was going to go in there and beat him up, which he did.

          Secondly, there was ample “scrapping” throughout the 3 rounds (not sure what fight you were watching but the rest of us saw a ton of toe to toe action, Diaz simply getting the better of it most of the time). Now had Diaz taken BJ to the ground or “held” him up against the fence for the majority the fight, then yes your attempted point would hold some sort of weight. But Nick simply beat BJ up, it’s as simple as that. He gave Penn every chance to win that fight, even headbutting BJ’s fist at times telling him to hit him harder. Your “he held him!!” excuse is just that, an excuse. Sorry man.

  20. Murad says:

    Condit did much more than just running. Last time I got outrun, I didn’t have any bruises on my face.

  21. Sheek says:

    Ignorant fucking fans..omg..I’ve seen way worse fights. Everyone is fucking complaining and the fight wasn’t boring at all..People are just fucking upset because Nick Diaz didn’t win..I did not hear this much backlash from Chael vs Michael Bisping. Like that fight was a fucking disgrace..The only significant thing that Chael did was takedowns and he won that decision. Barely anyone complained about that..Carlos Condit did absolutely nothing wrong..He hit him with hard shots all night..There was no way Nick was gonna lose that fight if Carlos traded with him. I’m really tired of the bitching..You ppl just won’t admit that you are mad because Nick didn’t win..I could tell if Carlos had actually gotten the knockout you ppl would still be bitchin and would probably use a bs excuse like the ref shouldn’t have stopped the fight or whatever else yall could think of..it was a great fight to me,some of you are just fucking dumb or way too bias for Nick. Carlos has done enough,Nick didn’t..no real robbery there.

    • zach says:

      Most real fans aren’t even mad diaz lost, there mad the the decision of 49-46 which is bullshit

      • Sheek says:

        I don’t see them complaining about that though..thats arguable but they aren’t talking about that..all I keep hearing is finish the fight,finish the fight..but the opportunity didn’t present itself and they are basically asking condit to lose by standing in front of diaz and trade shots with him..I don’t believe he purposely fought for points,it just looked that way because he didn’t knock diaz out. Condit landed multiple combos and avoided the danger zone that is being up against the cage trading blows with nick diaz..How can anyone be upset with that performance and not be upset with ppl like chael sonnen? And ppl that are complaining about the Jackson’s camp are ignorant as well..they have plenty of fighters that finish,including carlos condit..having one fight that goes to a decision in a long time doesn’t change the fact that he isn’t a finisher. Jackson’s camp consists of Jon Jones,Diego Brandao,John Dodson,Melvin Guillard and more. All of them go for the finish and they win in impressive fashion. It’s not the Jackson’s camp so stop blaming him.

  22. Zack says:

    Point fighters stem directly as a result of Greg Jackson. Fuck Greg Jackson, fuck Gsp, fck Carlos condit, and most of all fuck Jon Fitch. Long live the king Anderson silva greatest p4p ever. And fuck chael sonnen don’t know how I forgot him.

  23. Chartmonster! says:

    Great article! When we get to the bottom of this issue what remains is which fighter can impose their will no matter what style or what art or the combos of different ones. Every sport has points..football..basketball..rugby..baseball, and who accumulates the most wins and sometimes we fall back on points bc no one got knocked out or sub’d. Diaz is a banger a slugger and fans love his style bc it is similar to Bj’s yeah a little. As a banger isn’t your job to do your job and bang..it sounds like diaz failed to do his job and thats why he LOST! Carlos is a banger also and the strikes landed says it all, and did he get a KO..no but diaz did LESS to win the fight. So why are all the fans upset bc Diaz didn’t do his job. It’s the fighters job to win and to overcome your opponent..Carlos did it and Diaz failed. Talk shitt about Gsp’s style..then someone please step up like Carlos did against a tough Diaz and beat this mutherfkr if you can! If you can’t then Shut the Fu*k up and stop the fkn whining bc it’s their job to beat their opponent. With all the different styles out and being used in this sport someone can’t beat this canadian wrestling homo? Maybe there’s more to Gsp then everyone knows..hmmm. If you want 2 idiots to stand in the middle and swing away watch a toughman competition or pull up kimbo slice’s videos and have at it..as for me I want to see the mastery of the arts and the ability to overcome your opponent by utilizing skills and brains. Bruce Lee was a thinker and a physical phenom and he would be proud of the Bj Penns..Gsps..Condits..Aldos and everyone that can put it ALL together and be victorious over their opponent! It was a matter of time diaz was going to fail bc of his style and his size factors..he met his match!

    Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat! Sun Tzu..

  24. Captain Moroni says:

    UFC “As real as it gets”. Get the rounds out of there and let the fighters worry about their conditioning. How often do you see a guy hanging on for dear life so the bell rings and he is saved. The saved by the bell crap works for Zach Morris but not in MMA.

  25. Ryan says:

    I agree with your opinion Terry. My problem of Condit’s tactics was that he wasn’t trying to finish the fight. After the 3rd round, I suspected he was going to win the fight by points. Also, as for people like Dominick, he may be a point fighter but he is exciting to watch and his fight with Demtrious and Cruz were amazing! Dominick is an aggressive fighter although some may think he is a point fighter

  26. CanILive says:

    whatever the case, Diaz was eating any spinning strike thrown at him….. he’s a tough ass mofo, just needs to adapt to people’s strategies

    • ComeOnPeople says:

      Totally agree…Diaz is tough…but eating fists and kicks doesn’t make one a winner of an MMA fight…just a damaged loser. Condit was relatively undamaged.

  27. Duane... says:

    Put all feelings aside real quick about each fighter and look at this from a new fans perspective…

    Point fighting to win belts shoud’nt be excepted by fans. I’m not saying stand in the pocket and trade but damn engage and give us a show, your fighters/entertainers. What i mean by show isn’t stand there like rock’m sock’ms but go for things acquired over years of training to be a top tier fighter. Your suppose to be technical, show us fans those techniqual strikes that ultimately and track record shows(condit) “finishes fighters” We pay $60 to see technique and guys trying to be the last man standing, guys that put it all on the line to advance and be put on a pedestal by fans. I didn’t pay $60 to see who has better lateral movement and leg kicks. I don’t mind a decision at all, it’s part of MMA and i’m completely fine with that, most decisions in UFC guys went for it for 3 or 5rds. But point fighting and running away to “reset” i can’t get behind that, neither should fans.

    What if every fighter did that, you think this sport would be where it’s at today? The sport wasn’t built on point fighting, nor will it have longivity with more point fighters. So you guys can root and cheer for these type of performances all you want, but when you start to see these PPV #s tank and shows become minimal don’t wonder why…

  28. slacker says:

    Does anyone know where Cesar Gracie was at the end of the 4th rd. and why wasn’t it him coaching and advising Nick going into the final and most important round? Post an article we can reply to about that! Gracie needs to take some personal blame for this loss. That guy is flying under the radar undetected. He’s slipping through the crowd in dark sunglasses and a hat and trenchcoat.

  29. Jessed2011 says:

    I like knockouts and submissions as much as the next guy, however I also understand that fighting isnt just about hitting the other person, it is about making the other person miss. Every top level fighter in the world today has been a top flight competitor in one or more styles that make up their base (ie; wrestling, muai thai, jits, etc.). No elite athlete has ever excelled in their sport without finishing an opponent. Name one boxer, wrestler, jits practitioner, kickboxer, etc. that is a world champion or highly ranked that has never finished an opponent? There isnt one. But at the same time, those athletes have also gone the distance with an opponent and either won or lost by decision. The goal of EVERY fighter in mma is to finish their opponent, while taking as little punishment as possible. GSP seems to be the person that critics hammer on the most, because he “Doesnt finish fights……He lay n prays…..He wins by points” Are you serious? take a look at some of his opponents. Dan Hardy…..He had him in a kimura and even told his corner that he could have broken his arm. BJ Penn……..He made him quit (In my book that is better than a finish, because you not only broke his body and his will but you broke his spirit)! Josh Koscheck……He broke his orbital bone and put him on the shelf for quite a while. True, none of these opponents were finished, but it sure as hell wasnt for lack of effort on the part of GSP. He clearly beat his opponents, but could not finish. It is as much a testament to his opponent’s will and warrior spirit. On the other hand look at Anderson Silva and Nick (or is it Prick? I forget) Diaz. Nick complains that Condit ran from him the whole night, and won by points. Ok, but BJ Penn stood right in front of you the whole time, but you couldnt finish him. Anderson Silva clearly outclassed Damian Maia, but didnt finish him. My point is this…….. In any combat sport, the odds of the fight going to a decision are greatly increased, and the odds of it being stopped are severely diminished when 2 fighters of equal caliber are matched against each other. Bottom line….If you like the pure competition and like knowing that anything can happen once the cage door closes, then PPV is for you. If all you want to see is finishes, UFC has a great line of Ultimate Knockouts/Ultimate Submissions dvds for your entertainment dollar.

  30. DudeIncognito says:

    Winning by points is an easier way to win than by actually finishing your opponent. Greg Jackson knows this, and more and more fighters are figuring it out. Nothing is going to stop this trend unless the UFC makes some changes.

    • Sheek says:

      That’s a really dumb statement. Greg Jackson doesn’t encourage winning by points..He encourages playing to your strengths. So if one of his fighters are about to finish he tells them not to finish? No. When the opportunity is there the finish will be there also. And again I keep saying this..Greg Jackson’s camp has plenty of fighters that finish fights. I don’t get why ppl are bitching about Greg Jackson.

      • DudeIncognito says:

        Of course he doesn’t stop someone from finishing if he is about to finish, but the game plans seem to focus more and more on making points. As I said, it’s an easier/safer win.

  31. slacker says:

    There is something here amongst all the complaints about Condit fighting a tactical fight that is so obvious, yet we have all accepted it and don’t see the contradiction. People are saying Condit didn’t fight, that he was being backed up and that he ran or circled out of attacks constantly, without throwing any punches. Now think about it: If Condit should have to strike – punch his way forward to engage and get away from an attack, Nick should have to punch his way in! That’s logical right? But no. He “walks” his opponents down, not “strikes” his opponents as he backs them against the fence. He sticks his arm straight out, keeps his left cocked and ready, and “walks” forward – no strikes!!! Do you see the contradiction clearly now and why all this whining and criticism about Carlos not striking his way out of every single “walk down” is hypocritical and unfounded?! Let the same logic and rule apply to Diaz then! Walking your opponent backward with your arm straight out is not dictating or setting a “pace”! It’s a tactic, just the same as what Carlos did to stay on the outside and keep from getting pinned against the fence! Only Condit did it better!!! And that’s why he won!!! He was the better tactician!!!

    • lol says:

      Thats not the point. the Point is to fight because this is MMA. People trying to win by points are phaggots thats bad for UFC business. Its not a matter of who won but how they won and of course Condit did but let me ask you would you pay for that PPV event?

      This is the best way to lose money for UFC and hell no I wouldnt pay for a condit fight.

      • slacker says:

        It is exactly the point! Nick is not fighting when he is “walking” guys backward and not striking. He is trying to win by “octagon control” points!

        • andyboy says:

          LMFAO! did you just take Condits d*** out of your mouth and say Nick Diaz fights for points??? WOW! good thing is ins’t community forums cuz i would literally never read anything you wrote ever again!

          p.s. just becuz someone criticizes the way Condit fought doesnt mean hes a hardcore Diaz fan thats butthurt. Watch that fight on mute 5-6 times in a row and say Diaz’s wasnt looking for a fight!

        • Jessed2011 says:

          Diaz wasn’t looking for a fight!!!!! He was looking for someone to use as a punching bag!! Condit knew this and created a gameplan accordingly.

        • slacker says:

          Of course, he is fights for points. He told his corner guys he thought he won the first 3 rounds, didn’t he? He complained about not getting the win because of octagon control, didn’t he? Sure, he looks for a fight, but with his arm straight out in front as he walks – not strikes – his way forward. That’s a tactic! Greg Jackson and team countered with a better tactic and Condit won the fight. lol It’s so obvious now, it’s hilarious!

        • DudeIncognito says:

          So wait, if you are chasing someone trying to get into a fight, and the other person is backing away trying to avoid a fight, you are at fault for not being able to make him fight?

          That’s what your comment boils down to. Sorry man, but it takes two to have a fight.

        • slacker says:

          Walking toward a guy with your arm straight out and measuring him is a tactic – it’s not fighting. Deal with the truth. Condit’s camp analyzed the situation and came up with an answer. It worked and they won. Superior tactic.

        • DudeIncognito says:

          Sorry Slacker, but you are wrong. Diaz tried to engage in a fight. Carlos avoided a fight. Saying that Diaz is at fault for not being able to make Carlos fight is just plain silly.

        • slacker says:

          He avoided a fight, yet managed to outstrike by him by 40 +. Hmmm… you are starting to convince me.

        • DudeIncognito says:

          Hey, if you want to believe that a pitter patter, tag-and-run style makes you a great fighter and a champ, be my guest. I disagree; a true fighter’s goal is to finish a fight, not win by points.

        • slacker says:

          Hey. I can respect that point of view. As long as you don’t try to say a win is not a win.

        • Mucks says:

          a win is a win, I’m not paying to see that kind of win again. Professional sports are a form of entertainment in this country. Especially in MMA! There is no play-offs no even schedule they put guys together looking for exciting fights. Carlos Condit went in there to win a decision.
          Two things to your point. A) the significant strikes stat is absolute bullshit (who is to say what strike is/isn’t significant other than the person taking it) B). Carlos had a tactic to win, he showed up with a mind set of winning a decision. To me that isn’t entertainment that is just a guy looking to further his career and I applaud him for doing it. Good for him, but he lost me as a fan, and many others. Had his tatic been to move and still inflict damage so he could push him back late in the fight I wouldn’t have minded, but there is no doubt if there were rounds 6 & 7 Condit would have been on his bike in those rounds as well.

        • what was he doing when he bitch slapped condem lol can you answer that son

      • Magog says:

        someone needs to tell lol and all the other BSLers that the point is to win.

        That’s why you get more money if you win. It’s why you don’t get fired if you win. That’s why when you fight like sho bum you get fan boy blow jobs.

        when you learn to pay your kids and wife when those let me know. Tool.

      • AGREED! This was the first I bought on XBOX LIVE and I will NEVER buy another Condit fight PERIOD! I possibly won’t pay another $55 for another UFC event.

    • On this site people generally side with BJ.... says:

      People make it sound so simple, just cut angles, counter, and keep distance, have you tried to do this when you are truly outclassed?

      I didn’t even see the fight, but one thing you can be assured of after every Diaz fight is that there will be bitching and moaning.

      And I love it all!

    • einiar says:

      A fight is a fight! it does not matter how it went . how come all of the sudden we are so curious about why is the judges need to make decisions. Well if we are so concern about decisions then go to ur fighter and tell him to finish all his fights so you can be happy. diaz is very lucky that
      the fight ends in twenty five minutes cuz man condit was getting stronger and stronger out striking diaz and diaz was having trouble securing any of his moves on the ground.

      watch the fight carefully cuz diaz start to sense losing in the third round. Condit made him look like a punching bag. taking diaz boxing skills away and punish diaz legs.

      im not being objective but subjective about it..ahaha. sorry guys stop cring cuz condit is celebrating his win over the ugly big mouth diaz.

    • einiar says:

      no you are absolutely wrong . tactical fight is a more exciting fight than average people fight . u have to move ur ass around the fu,en ring to finish fights. u dont just rush in to another fighter and trade punches for the championship belt.

    • magoo says:

      @ slacker all true!!!

      • slacker says:

        Right on man. Thanks. As long as some people see what I am saying, it’s all good.

        • nathan says:

          couldn’t agree with you more, slacker. also, did everybody refuse to notice that every time Condit would slip away from Diaz on the cage he would position himself right in the middle of the cage to be toe to toe with Diaz? I’m not a particular fan of either of these guys, but I fight and I thought it was damn impressive octagon control to dictate where the fight would happen by Condit. Also, his kicks DEFINITELY slowed Diaz down by the 4th and 5th rounds. Diaz wasn’t coming forward in those rounds nearly like he was in the first two. Condit was also throwing a multitude of head kicks and spinning backfists/elbows. Whether they landed every time or not, how is that not at least making an attempt to finish your opponent? Was Diaz trying to finish Condit by slapping him or talking at Condit like a damn fool?

  32. CCW.Gun control=Government control. says:

    I enjoyed the fight, but I would have enjoyed it more if Condit did what he had said he was going to do. But since when do fighters ever do what they promise when getting into an opponents head? Diaz should have known better than to believe Condit was going to stand and bang. He should have stopped chasing him after round two and just stood there waiting for Condit to come in and did take more takedowns.

    • GRT 3000 says:

      I agree, I wish Condit would have stood and banged a bit more too. I was gearing up for the fight of the century and it ended up being a snooze-fest; did more chatting with friends than watching. But if Diaz is so well rounded (as he claims to be) he should have had an answer for that. why did he decide to take him down with 30 seconds left in the fight? When he noticed that he couldn’t bully Condit into a street brawl, he and his corner should have came up with that plan right away. All I really seen him do was walk him down and talk shit the whole time. Condit evaded him and countered with strikes and kicks. As boring as that is, it equals winning the fight. Diaz should have had a little more in his bag of tricks other than the one plan. If he wants to do nothing but brawl maybe he should quit the UFC and head over to felony fights or something. I’m not trying to dog him out, but it seems like that’s all he’s looking for. what is he an 8th degree black belt in BJJ? why did he even bother?!

    • Ninja Oreo Dollop says:

      I can agree with that strategy for Diaz.

  33. kevin9999 says:

    Well said Slacker

  34. Rafi Bomb says:

    I love this article. Thank you.

  35. andyboy says:

    This was poorly written. not grammer or sentence structure, just a s*** article. Fighters and fans are fighting to finish reading this to see if there is something else besides the obvious being toiled around for 10 small paragraphs……you just made sherdog look really really good.

  36. Ninja Oreo Dollop says:

    Mr. Terry Heick, I enjoyed reading your opinions on the matter. But, the problem with Condit vs Diaz is that Condit never made an attempt to finish Diaz and he never really controlled the center of the Octagon and he never controlled the pace, which is what I consider to be Octagon control. I wanted Condit to win but after watching him back up into the cage for the majority of the fight to avoid getting hit. Who likes to be hit? No one, but he looked scared and his tactic’s quickly made me root for Diaz a fighter I don’t like at all. We as fight fans paid for this fight and it was terribly un-entertaining and anyone who says otherwise is just biased. You know a “great fight” when you see it and you have probably seen that same “great fight” several times, over and over. Any recent GSP fight was more entertaining than Condit Vs Diaz. Even when GSP point fights you have to admit that he beats the living shit out of his opponents. I never felt like Diaz was in trouble.

    • learntoread says:

      Good points man. Cheers.

    • I took Condit to have exercised octagon control because the fight took place where he wanted it, not up against the cage where Diaz wanted it. Claiming that “this fight and it was terribly un-entertaining and anyone who says otherwise is just biased” is itself a biased statement; I found it more involving and suspenseful than most and it was only the third Condit fight I had ever watched.

  37. dubsicle says:

    How did Diaz control the pace when at no way at all wa he able to keep pressure on Condit and implement his gameplan? It was an outside fight, like Condit wanted. And when Condit kicked Diaz in the head he wasnt trying to finish him. Some people really just dont know the fight game. Whats even crazier tho is people saying Diaz won the fight.

    • slacker says:

      That’s right. Once he saw that he couldn’t outstrike and out – maneuver him, he should have changed his gameplan. Maybe start going for take – downs and a BJJ game in the 3rd round, rather than the 4th and 5th, when it was too little, too late. He didn’t adapt and he lost. Doesn’t seem like he got any coaching from Gracie as well.

    • Ninja Oreo Dollop says:

      The reason you know Diaz controlled the pace of the fight was because if had Diaz not approached Condit aggressively what reason would Condit have to repeatedly back up to the cage? That’s called Octagon Control and controlling the pace.

      • slacker says:

        Diaz was moving forward, but then Condit would move and control the position and place of the fight – that is also octagon control. But even the way Nick moves forward, he is not so much setting a “pace”, as he is using this tactic of measuring his opponent with his arm straight out in front. Most of the time, he was not striking as he was “walking” Condit back, so he doesn’t score points for effective aggressiveness either. Also, Condit stuffed take – down and clinch attempts which counts as octagon control. Plus, Condit would strike him as he was coming forward, which also scores points for effective aggressiveness.

        • Ninja Oreo Dollop says:

          That’s not being aggressive that’s counter punching. Also why would Diaz blindly throw strikes moving forward if his opponent is constantly moving backwards? Dude, Slacker you are killing me! Are reading what you are preaching?

          People on here and Greg Jackson included are comparing his game plan to sticking and moving? Boxers like Ali and Leonard bob and weave and move in circles to avoid strikes. Not straight backwards. Condit didn’t master the art of Karate like Machida last time I checked. I don’t even like Machida’s style of fighting by backing up and I have a background in KARATE!

        • slacker says:

          Call it whatever name you want – counter – striking, defensive – striking; when you hit your opponent and then move before he even gets off a strike of his own, you are winning the fight. And he did it to Diaz many times. As for how Diaz moves forward, we all know, Diaz isn’t doing anything “blindly” when he is “walking back” his opponent. Diaz’ ultimate goal was to throw strikes with Condit pinned up against the fence. He used the arm out, foot forward, measuring “tactic” to try to achieve that, like he always does. That’s the reason he was not “throwing strikes blindly” when Condit was backing up. If he starts engaging too early, it will be much easier for Condit to punch his way out, circle, or just plain get out of there and avoid the trap. Jackson’s camp obviously knew this, studied this, and countered this with a superior tactic. You will notice that whenever the fight was in the center, or near the center where Condit maneuvered the fight, Condit always outstruck Nick. Nick avoids the center because he is not good there. B.J. was outstriking him there before he started getting beat up against the fence in the 2nd half of the second round. And, even battered as he was, in the 3rd, when he was able to get off the fence, he did very well when they were striking in the center together. I repeat: Nick avoids the center because he is not very good there. Condit was able to bring it there and he won the fight. Don’t confuse Diaz “walking back” Condit with his arm straight out and pawing at him, but then getting hit as Condit moved away, with octagon control and effective aggression. There is a reason he was outstruck 40 + in the fight, and that was it.

        • Ninja Oreo Dollop says:

          Lol why are you writing me a novel? You and I need to shorten our responses.

        • slacker says:

          haha. I know. I didn’t intend to. It also doesn’t help when the system randomly chooses the longer margin style.

  38. angel says:

    If you want there to be a definite winner, then get rid of the rounds and the time limits. As long as there are time limits and rounds its a sport not a fight.

  39. OakCliffTopdog says:

    Sorry but Condit put heat on Diaz…He controlled the cage by using every angle it offers to reset and throw. And he was trying to put him away! There were several combos that landed a couple which provided some strong head kicks that would’ve dropped 9 out of 10 fighters. Credit to Diaz for the chin! But that’s all he took into the cage that night.Condit kicked his a@# and it showed after the fight. From the 209 to the 214 and 808 everyone could see who took the most damage! The Diaz blueprint has been written!

    • slacker says:

      Right on the money. A blueprint as good as bluechip stock.

    • learntoread says:

      The only round Condit put any real heat on Diaz was the 4th.

    • GRT 3000 says:

      I can agree with that. I seen Condit throw spinning elbows, flying knees, kicks, and combos. He kept his distance and avoided the fate of BJ and Cerrone who were bullied into a street brawl by the Diaz brawlers. buuut that all said, Condit is going to get his ass handed to him by George.

    • Gack says:

      Exactly how I feel. No doubt Nick stalked him nearly the whole fight…but like Slacker is saying…that is NICK’S TACTIC…arm out pawing at his opponent..backs them to the fence then picks them apart with his superb boxing and accuracy. EVERYONE with a brain knows that is what Diaz wants to do….EVERY time. Don’t get me wrong…I wanted Diaz to win cuz I wanted Diaz vs GSP soooo bad. But I have to give it to Condit. He out struck Diaz…HE controlled the octagon by NOT letting Diaz control it. When backed to the fence, he circled out and reset in the center, where he would out strike Diaz again and again, until Diaz eventually backed him to the fence and he’d reset again. That’s not Diaz exercising octagon control, to me…that’s Condit. Diaz didn’t get the fight against the fence like he wanted…he had to fight away from the fence and got picked apart by Condit, time and time again.

      For those that say this is BS cuz Condit fought to win on points…well…they are just full of shit. Did you not see the strikes he landed? See the head kicks? At least 2 of those would have/should have dropped Diaz…but as EVERYONE knows…Diaz has a great chin and can absorb a shit ton of strikes…just like Big Country. Condit’s strikes would have finished anyone else…Diaz is just too tough.

      No two ways about it…Condit won this one and I for one enjoyed the fight.

  40. guamy says:

    nick should have ran the other way also that way there would have been no fight? how do you controll the cage when your running away the whole time. i would say the other guy was in control cause he made you have to move you didnt make him have to do anything, hence control of the fight. Diaz stalked him down and he ran, if diaz didnt stalk him down there would have been no fight at all. it would have looked like damian maia and anderson all over again.

    • slacker says:

      That’s a bad example. Maia rocked like a baby and lay on the ground like Werdum did with Overeem. Condit re -set in the center of the octagon where he is best and outstruck him. Plus, Diaz took punishment even when he was backing him up, which scores Condit points for effective aggression. It’s all there in the rules, plain as day. Condit unequivocally won the fight. The only thing people can complain about is that this is not their personal preference for type of fight to watch.

  41. Philippe says:

    If you guys are going to argue about how condit threw pitter patter punches, baby leg kicks, and ran the whole time. So what exactly did Diaz do? He walked forward into cornering his opponent, talked smack, tried to slap his opponent to engage in his strength and yeahh thats about it throughout the whole 5 rounds. Seriously? He could have done many things differently to engage with Condit. Condit saw that it was a repetitive move backward avoid damage and bring back to the center and land kicks and punches and go for some crazy spinning fists and elbows. It was the whole 5 rounds and the only reason Condit became effective at that and was more confident was because Diaz did not do anything at all differently and seemed very flat footed. So with all that being said, it is Condits and his gameplans fault for being effective in doing the same thing over and over and again Condits fault for Diaz and his corner for not making any changes through out the rounds to make it Diaz’s fight? It wasnt an exciting fight and Condit is partly to blame but Diaz and his corner should do nothing but take full responsibility for not adapting or making any changes throughout the whole fight which was the main reason he lost. I honestly thought it would be Cesar inside the ring giving advice instead of Nate btw.

    • learntoread says:

      “So what exactly did Diaz do?”

      Well, he punched his opponent in the face & body over 100 times, he aggressively stalked him for the majority of the fight trying to get his opponent to engage in a fight rather than: “kick, move backward. repeat”. He took his opponent down, gained dominant positioning and went for a sub, etc. Did you somehow miss all that?

      • Ninja Oreo Dollop says:

        Damn!

      • slacker says:

        I see that you are more impressed with the punching stats and are hung up on how many kicks Condit threw, as opposed to punches. I get it. I really do. But again, that is just personal preference. Bottomline: Condit won more rounds than Diaz whether it looked impressive to you or not. He won the fight.

        • learntoread says:

          Of course he got the “W”, there is no arguing that, the judges gave that to him.

          But in reality, (other than winning the right to face GSP), Carlos Condit has lost much more than he won on Saturday night.

          He’s lost a lot of fans (myself included). He’s lost some respect (from both mma fans and fellow fighters who’ve been tweeting). He’s lost his stigma as a “warrior” in many peoples minds, and has now labelled by many as just another “point fighter” / wussy.

          It’s a shame really.

          Here’s hoping Georges gives some karma back his way and any real confrontation during the entire fight, takes him down in every round and grounds out a boring, awkward 5 round UD. It would be quite ironic.

        • learntoread says:

          *avoids (any real confrontation)

        • slacker says:

          Well, he did beat Nick. It wasn’t just that the judges gave him the W.

          I don’t think he can lose his reputation as a warrior after 1 fight. Anyone, who would do that is being far too critical and judgmental.

          So, you are saying you wouldn’t cheer for him against GSP now?

        • GRT 3000 says:

          I think what he’s saying is that 170 was interesting there for a minute. But after that performance by both Diaz and Condit it’s clear that neither of these dudes could beat the Saint. George will win the fight easily. 170 is back to where it was.

        • slacker says:

          I see where people are coming from. Myself. I enjoy both styles of fights – technical and brawl. I think the WW division is going to be looking good with guys like Ellenberger, MacDonald, and now Hathaway is back. And hopefully, Nick doesn’t retire. He’s a great fighter. He just has to accept that he will not be as dominant in the UFC as in Strikeforce.

  42. zoeldog27 says:

    Keep this guy as a permanent writer he’s 1000 times better than that dickhead Mr.Disanto he spot on its only the casual fans that winge about there not being a ko and i bet most of them dont even buy the PPV they just download it off the pirate bay or some shit, there is nothing wrong with a tactical war and once you train a bit of ju jitsu you realise how hard these guys are working jockying for position ect there seems to be a lot of people who write on this forum for the hell of it or to be a smartarse why whats the point if u truly dont like our sport fuck off and watch the WWE youll fit in there quite nicely

  43. q says:

    Im so sick of condit nut huggers, I dont pay $60 to watch someone run a marathon or turn into a human blanket. What would Bruce lee say if he saw “fighters” throwing totally harmless shots and running away getting their hands raised.

  44. Johnny Gat says:

    Nick Diaz is pissed because it didn’t go their way. GSP is pissed because he doesn’t get Diaz now. Fans are pissed because they thought Diaz – Condit was going to be brawl of the year as well as getting GSP – Diaz as the main course.

    Condit had a great game plan and strategy. That’s the way you’re suppose to “competitively” fight Nick Diaz in a sports fight. This isn’t a street fight or lack of a better term real fighting. It’s sport fighting. But that’s not to say that MMA isn’t real or should be looked down upon because of that. But in the end, its a sport and Condit played it better.

    You should all be pissed at Nick Diaz for not trying harder. He’s suppose to be this great boxer and yet he has no boxing movement whatsoever with his feet and head. How did the “Muay Thai” guy slip out of Diaz’s punches that easily? Condit landed punches on your face too! This fight showed that Diaz’s boxing is nowhere near as good as people think it is. Jeff Lacy would have put him in a hospital. Boxing is more than just the ability to throw punches.

    • Ninja Oreo Dollop says:

      He trains for BJ Penn, GSP, Koscheck and then Diaz and all he does is point fight? A decision win wasn’t all he could muster because he gave it his best shot. He purposely chose to decision Diaz and got what he wanted. He talked a big game about knocking Diaz head off, strongly implying there was going to be an all out war when in reality he was just retreating the whole time. He should know better than to play it safe for decision. That’s why we rarely see the number 2 WW ever fight because he is boring and no one wants to watch him fight.

      It’s one thing for GSP to point fight while whooping his opponents soundly but for Condit to resort to the strategy of out pointing Diaz means he knew he couldn’t beat Diaz otherwise. Some say Jackson makes game plans for their opponents weaknesses so what was Diaz weakness according to this game plan? It was running plain and simple.

  45. really? says:

    I’m a huge BJ Penn fan and don’t like Diaz at all, but it’s funny how BJPenn.com called Nick out for being a “poser” and “fighting like glass jawed Jon Fitch” and then saying Condit had an excellent game plan and won the fight after he ran for 25 minutes. Hyprocrites much???

  46. Rafael says:

    Let’s start with this issue of aggressiveness and octagon control. First of all, it is effective aggressiveness and effective octagon control. It should go without saying, but obviously it has to be said. If the fight doesn’t take place where you want it to, do you really have octagon control? Nick could have stood in the middle of the octagon and forced condit to him. If condit doesn’t engage it reflects badly on him. But nick was trying to put him up against the cage because that would be to his advantage. Do you expect condit to just stand there? If a guy can’t throw a hook or cut off the octagon (I thought diaz was supposed to be the best boxer in mma where’s the footwork?) Then you attack him at angles. And that’s what conditions was doing. Furthermore, it a guy throws multiple flying knees and spinning back elbows, that doesn’t sound like a guy that’s just trying towin on points. Check the damage

  47. mmadred says:

    sorry to say but anyone that thinks diaz won the fight has to simply be a diehard fan. condit brung the fight to diaz just didnt engage in a wild slugfest. brilliant gameplan and execution. diaz was closer to getting knocked out, i cant recall condit getting rocked once (i will rewatch to confirm). i lost 50 bucks on diaz but there is no doubt in my mind condit won the fight

  48. Warren says:

    Carlos condit has finished 25 of his 27 wins, some, if not all, in vicious an devastating fashion. I appreciate all aspects of martial arts an enjoyed this fight. I can totally agree why others may have not enjoyed it like I did. That is completely fine and I respect your opinion, but to bash a guy an say he’s “boring” and you’ll never watch one of his fights again is a little mind blowing considering his record of finishes. I understand that the majority of people with that tone probably just seen condit fight for the first time, I completely get it. UFC has become bigger then ever and every bodies jumping on the bad wagon; cool. It’s great for the sport, but maybe take some time an watch the guys highlight real before you shit on the guy for beating a top 5 welterweight in the world in a tactical fight. I love Diaz’s fighting style, I know I know, he’s very one dimensional but I also feel he’s very entertaining. I appreciate the chess match just as much as a brawl. I hope nick doesn’t retire because I would love to see him play patty cake with jake ellenberger, Diaz has heart an enough guts to trade punches with him I think. It would be an awesome 30 second fight. I hope when nick wakes up he doesn’t retire again tho because their is other great match ups for him
    That are VERY exciting.

  49. jdog says:

    Start to hit the fighters who don’t finish in their pockets. If a fighter doesn’t finish 2 fights in a row don’t make them a main event, if they do it 3 times in a row put them on the prelims regardless of who they are, and put it in their contracts they will only get 1/2 their percentage of the PPV sales if they don’t finish the fight and if it is their second non finish fight in a row they get none of the PPV sales and these “lost” revenues will then be divided up between those who did finish even those who were not on the PPV portion of the fight. We are not actually talking about taking their money away because if no one bought the PPV then they wouldn’t get this money, and if they are not performing why should they be put in the main card or main event? People who COULD finish fights like GSP would then be on the prelims and look like a fool so he would up his game, also do you think Anderson Silva would have been playing games with his opponents like he was if this was in place? Just my thoughts, reward those who don’t finish a fight on a regular basis just adds to all the other fighters mentality that point fighting is the best way to do it. Reward for finishes, after all a finish truly shows who was the better fighter that night rather than a judges decision.

  50. mma is my religion says:

    Condit is the pound for pound best runner in mma today. The fucker is in the wrong sport. He needs to be in track and field not mma.

  51. cody says:

    if u try to say condit cotrolled the pace ur just trying to make excuses for him bitching out he did win the imo 2 to 3 but he ran he put nothing on his strikes and any time his back touch the cage literally lowered his shoulder and jogged to the other side if ur plan for the fucking start is to get a dec whick that is clearly what condit wanted that is wack ive never met a person who likes to watch a dec he won ok its over now quit trying to make excuses for the fact that he bitched out itd be one thing if he had a fitch reputation u cant really complain if u ordered the fight but 25 of 27 then he does that if anything he made diaz look better he made the natrural born killer run away from him for 25 mins it is what it is

    • slacker says:

      I never thought he was going straight for the decision. He was going for the win first IMO. He hit him with some pretty hard shots. It’s hard to KO Nick Diaz. And he’s got cardio forever! You gotta have some kinda contingency plan, right?

  52. slacker says:

    Looking at the top 10 WW rankings, I think one way to go is, have Diaz fight the winner of Ellenberger vs. Sanchez. Then GSP and Condit fight, and the champion fights the winner between those 3 guys. Koscheck can fight Ebersole. Or, have Koscheck fight Diaz and have Ebersole fight the winner of Ellenberger – Sanchez. This Ebersole dude is flying under the radar with a 10 fight win streak.

  53. waitwtfffwtfwtf says:

    What people are failing to realize is that, this is the UFC Welterweight division we’re talking about. GSP has ruled the division for a while now by point fighting, he has influenced the rest of the division going after his belt that realize they probably have to figure out a way to outpoint GSP to be champ

  54. mma is my religion says:

    Carlos saying it was going to be a dog fight.All he did was bark. What happened to the bite Carlos.

  55. Love says:

    Hello.

    I just entes to let you know that this text, machine-translated into Spanish from English is UTTER SHITE!!! It is a disgrace that an organisation such as the UFC would use such cheap methods to convey news in other languages. This text is unreadable as is. If you want to offer your
    News in different languages, you should have them properly translated at least. Otherwise, might as well not bother.
    By the way, I am a professional translator, so I know what I am talking about.
    BTW2, you could at least give us the chance to
    Choose what language we want to read our news in. I don’t know why but I got a link to this piece of news from Facebook through BJ PEN’s profile feed and it got delivered in this unacceptable Spanish even though the original post was in English. And I am both reading and writing this from an iPhone. Which doesn’t allow me to choose the language in which the article is delivered. A disgrace.

  56. Xaninho says:

    I think Diaz wasn’t confident enough about his take downs, cause Condit has a good td defense. I think Diaz will be working on his footwork, cutting off the cage and his take downs.

    Condit will surprise him next time and come out blazin’.

  57. thelert says:

    One thing that hasn’t been adequately discussed is which fighters are the fans willing to part with their hard earned cash to see. MMA is a business and businesses make money or they go out of business. Fans will not pay to see fighters that are not going to put on a show. If not for the undercard fights, there have been many disappointments regarding main events. Some judge decisions make you wonder what fight they were watching for the last half hour. It’s a lot like our current political system, badly flawed. Bottom line, it’s all about the benjamins and the fans will not continue to pay per view boring fights because they are not entertaining.

  58. guamy says:

    @ slacker i fail to see how condit controlled the center? every time he reset at the center nick would meet him in the middle and condit would run away. so nick spent more time in the center than condit did hence he controlled the cage. if he would have reset in the center and maybe stood for a min. maybe through a combo the circle out but he recentered and ran when Diaz squared off with him. in a fight if i step to some one and they step away from me that tells me they dont want to fight.

  59. Chris says:

    Wow I really like your point about coming up with a gameplan to finish rather than win fights. It seems obvious when you think about it that, that’s what fighters SHOULD do. But I also appreciate guys like machida who treat every fight like a street fight, where the number 1 goal is to avoid damage, it’s the true meaning behind the ma in mma. Just having a hard time reconciling the two philosophies of fighting

  60. Usually I do not learn post on blogs, but I would like to say that this write-up very compelled me to take a look at and do so! Your writing taste has been surprised me. Thanks, quite nice post.

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